Talk:Lomas Rishi Cave

A fact from Lomas Rishi Cave appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 20 September 2015 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that the Lomas Rishi Cave, a rock-cut cave, was built as a Buddhist sanctuary during the Ashokan period of the Maurya empire in the 3rd century BC?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2015/September. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Lomas Rishi Cave.

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Harle?

@Johnbod: Thanks for removing the British Library source. You re-added James Harle, claiming page 24-25 supports, "and there is no particular reason to believe that the example here was the specific influence on later examples, of which there are many at later Buddhist sites such as the Ajanta Caves and Karla Caves in Maharashtra." Where do you see it? In the Harle's book I have of The Art and Architecture of the Indian Subcontinent, the 2nd column on page 24 mentions "Lomas Rsi cave" but I don't see support for "no particular reason....", "Ajanta" etc bit. Nor in Michell. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 03:21, 19 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Harle says the entrance frame is "obviously based on a wooden model". That the Lomas Rishi is in stone accounts for it being the earliest to survive - probably the cave next door once had something similar in wood. It is important to distinguish between the rock-cut "cave" interior, which may well be influential, and for which there could be no very close parallel in wood or other vegetable material, and the doorway motif, which was probably widespread in wood, which would be easy to do, as well as formalizing a shape created by natural building technology in thatch, bamboo etc. See the Sanchi and other Buddist reliefs showing buildings, which in date probably lie between Lomas Rishi and Ajanta and Karla, or at the same time. When similar motifs are used there, there is no reason to assume that the Lomas Rishi doorway is a specific influence. Hope that helps. Johnbod (talk) 04:27, 19 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

No it doesn't help. Please no OR or lectures. To refresh, OR includes "any analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to reach or imply a conclusion not stated by the sources". Harle or Michell do not state or imply what you claim. I would welcome it if you can identify the page numbers where Harle and Michell state what you allege they do.Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 04:39, 19 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Well it should help. This is the standard view. The wooden buildings are the models for both Lomas Rishi, and Ajanta/Karla, just as they are for the overall chaitya hall, and other details in those caves. Try Rowland, Benjamin, The Art and Architecture of India: Buddhist, Hindu, Jain, 1967 (3rd edn.), Pelican History of Art, Penguin, ISBN 0140561021 - pp. 64-65: [the Lomas Rishi entry] is "an imitation in relief sculpture in stone of the entrance a free-standing structure in wood and thatch ... the first representation of a type of building that must have existed in wooden forms of the Vedic period". Johnbod (talk) 04:49, 19 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

My concern is not with the "wooden forms" part! My concern, if I must repeat, is with "and there is no particular reason to believe that the example here was the specific influence on later examples, of which there are many at later Buddhist sites such as the Ajanta Caves and Karla Caves in Maharashtra." Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 04:56, 19 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]