Talk:Littlest Things/GA1
GA Review
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Reviewer: J Milburn (talk) 22:59, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria
- Is it reasonably well written?
- A. Prose quality:
- First list below
- B. MoS compliance:
- First list below
- A. Prose quality:
- Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
- A. References to sources:
- Looks ok
- B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:
- A few potentially unreliable. See second list below
- C. No original research:
- Looks ok
- A. References to sources:
- Is it broad in its coverage?
- A. Major aspects:
- The only thing I was really not getting that I would want to get was the boyfriend situation- was this about her actual boyfriend? If so, was it her actual former boyfriend in the video? Any info available on this? Also, if you're looking to take this to FA (though I'm not overly fussed right now) you may want to do your best to expand the personnel list. Surely there were other musicians involved?
- Well, the second quote explains that this song is, in fact, about her then boyfriend. However, the man who plays him in the video is clearly just an actor, as no source states otherwise. I'm not planning on FA, it would be nice, though I can't find that much information on this song. :) Regarding the info, that's what I've got from the single's liner notes. How many could there be on one song? --12345abcxyz20082009 (talk) 15:27, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
- Concerning the "more personnel", check out this as a comparison- and that album's not even 40 minutes long! Concerning the other issue- yeah, you're right. I guess that's another point you could try and make more of if you head towards FAC. J Milburn (talk) 15:45, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
- Yes, but you can see how it's different. That's for an entire album, this is just one song, where there is no choir, nobody is playing cello or violin etc. I added a few extra credits, but that's about it.--12345abcxyz20082009 (talk) 19:44, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
- Concerning the "more personnel", check out this as a comparison- and that album's not even 40 minutes long! Concerning the other issue- yeah, you're right. I guess that's another point you could try and make more of if you head towards FAC. J Milburn (talk) 15:45, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
- Well, the second quote explains that this song is, in fact, about her then boyfriend. However, the man who plays him in the video is clearly just an actor, as no source states otherwise. I'm not planning on FA, it would be nice, though I can't find that much information on this song. :) Regarding the info, that's what I've got from the single's liner notes. How many could there be on one song? --12345abcxyz20082009 (talk) 15:27, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
- The only thing I was really not getting that I would want to get was the boyfriend situation- was this about her actual boyfriend? If so, was it her actual former boyfriend in the video? Any info available on this? Also, if you're looking to take this to FA (though I'm not overly fussed right now) you may want to do your best to expand the personnel list. Surely there were other musicians involved?
- B. Focused:
- The info about Belgium is incredibly obscure. Perhaps if there's a better source... Do you really mean to say that this appeared on the British chart, and the secondary chart of a region of Belgium? That almost sounds like a joke.
- Why would it be a joke? She is a British artist, with a broad appeal in the UK, but, at the time, she wasn't popular in mainland Europe. Hung Medien is a very reliable source per WP:GOODCHARTS. I think noting that the song somehow managed to chart in an European country despite little promotion and the fact that it was her third single, shows that Allen's popularity was rising and this is important to determine her notability as an artist, not a one hit wonder. I do admit it's not a big achievment at all, but it's good to include all chartings, if the song didn't chart in a "big market". The same for the songs who didn't chart on the Billboard Hot 100, the rules are to put the positions for its component charts (Pop Songs, Dance Club Play etc.). Same here. --12345abcxyz20082009 (talk) 15:27, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
- Ok, valid. If these really are the only charts it featured on, go for it. J Milburn (talk) 15:45, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
- Why would it be a joke? She is a British artist, with a broad appeal in the UK, but, at the time, she wasn't popular in mainland Europe. Hung Medien is a very reliable source per WP:GOODCHARTS. I think noting that the song somehow managed to chart in an European country despite little promotion and the fact that it was her third single, shows that Allen's popularity was rising and this is important to determine her notability as an artist, not a one hit wonder. I do admit it's not a big achievment at all, but it's good to include all chartings, if the song didn't chart in a "big market". The same for the songs who didn't chart on the Billboard Hot 100, the rules are to put the positions for its component charts (Pop Songs, Dance Club Play etc.). Same here. --12345abcxyz20082009 (talk) 15:27, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
- The info about Belgium is incredibly obscure. Perhaps if there's a better source... Do you really mean to say that this appeared on the British chart, and the secondary chart of a region of Belgium? That almost sounds like a joke.
- A. Major aspects:
- Is it neutral?
- Fair representation without bias:
- Fair representation without bias:
- Is it stable?
- No edit wars, etc:
- No edit wars, etc:
- Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
- A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:
- The music sample is simply too high quality- per Wikipedia:Music samples, we're looking for a sample of 18 seconds at 64kbps. This is 30 seconds at 130kbps.
- Shortened the sample at 18 seconds.
- A good start, but I'm still going to really need to see a reduction to 64kbps before I'm ready to promote. I'm afraid it's not something I know how to do myself- the page I linked may be helpful. J Milburn (talk) 15:45, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
- Done. I have no idea how to do it either. I just set it as "low quality" on my converter. This is as low as it gets. --12345abcxyz20082009 (talk) 19:44, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
- A good start, but I'm still going to really need to see a reduction to 64kbps before I'm ready to promote. I'm afraid it's not something I know how to do myself- the page I linked may be helpful. J Milburn (talk) 15:45, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
- Shortened the sample at 18 seconds.
- The music sample is simply too high quality- per Wikipedia:Music samples, we're looking for a sample of 18 seconds at 64kbps. This is 30 seconds at 130kbps.
- B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:
- Would be good to mention the monochrome in the video shot caption
- Mentioned.
- Would be good to mention the monochrome in the video shot caption
- A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:
- Overall:
- Pass or Fail:
- On hold, for now.
- Pass or Fail:
- "tackle her dealing" Who?
- "reminiscing their time" about their time, surely?
- "The song was created in a New York studio, after Allen had met Ronson, who was impressed by her previous work and offered her different samples." Odd sentence
- "accusing it to be a fraud" "of being a fraud". Also not too clear what this actually means.
- "her to work together" Rephrase?
- "Ronson declared about the process of composing the song that" Again, rephrase?
- "piano ang guitar" typo?
- ""Emmanuelle In The Mirror" and the "Theme From Emmanuelle (Instrumental)"" In, the and from should not be capitalised
- "The lyrics describe a post-relationship overview and reminiscing about it." Rephrase?
- "her London accent." A link would be useful- may well be meaningless to non-Brits.
- "softens her rough image" Specify Allen's
- "Dolan consideres it" typo?
- "the singer composes about" Rephrase?
- "On a similar tone" How is it a similar tone? In any case, the line needs rephrasing
- The first part of the Pitchfork quote ("when [Allen] operates outside of that comfort zone, the results are generally still of a high order, if not a bit more erratic.") should probably be cut- doesn't really add anything and is unclear
- Actually, I find it informative. The critic means that this song is an exception from the singer's normal way of making a song, and that "Littlest Things" is not in her "comfort zone": "As evidenced by the poison-penned "Smile" and the MySpace hit "LDN", Allen's appeal is in the way she combines those spacious, rolling sounds with A+ pop structures. When she operates outside of that comfort zone, the results are generally still of a high order, if not a bit more erratic. "Littlest Things" is a[...]". If you insist, though, I will remove it.
- It's not clear that he's actually talking about this song when you quote him in the article. If you feel it has value, then go for it, but I would recommend bringing the quote into the article in a slightly different way. J Milburn (talk) 15:46, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
- Removed quote and put it into my words. I think it's better now.--12345abcxyz20082009 (talk) 19:44, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
- It's not clear that he's actually talking about this song when you quote him in the article. If you feel it has value, then go for it, but I would recommend bringing the quote into the article in a slightly different way. J Milburn (talk) 15:46, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
- Actually, I find it informative. The critic means that this song is an exception from the singer's normal way of making a song, and that "Littlest Things" is not in her "comfort zone": "As evidenced by the poison-penned "Smile" and the MySpace hit "LDN", Allen's appeal is in the way she combines those spacious, rolling sounds with A+ pop structures. When she operates outside of that comfort zone, the results are generally still of a high order, if not a bit more erratic. "Littlest Things" is a[...]". If you insist, though, I will remove it.
- "Ms. Dynamite" Link would be nice- she seems to have faded back into obscurity
- "Though it did not enter the main chart in the Flanders region of Belgium, the single obtained position thirteen on Ultratip, a continuation of the chart.[16]" Certain this is important?
- I stated my arguments above.
- "shades" silhouettes? You also say "shadow" below- do you perhaps mean silhouette again?
- "this time the singer looking through another window" Rephrase?
- Some unwarranted italics in the refs- sheet music, official website, IMDB, stuff like that.
- Resolved all objections except where noted. If you still think there are some mistakes left, feel free to edit the article yourself. If not, leave a message here. --12345abcxyz20082009 (talk) 15:27, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
- Ref 4- IMDB is not a reliable source, for the most part
- Ref 5- what makes WhoSampled a reliable source?
- Ref 14/15- take a look at Wikipedia:Record charts
- Yes, I have looked there. What is the problem? It states that the chart positions from OCC are archived at ChartStats. And it's under the section "Sourcing guide". I have put this source in other GAs and even a FL.--12345abcxyz20082009 (talk) 15:27, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
- You're right, apologies. J Milburn (talk) 15:51, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
- Yes, I have looked there. What is the problem? It states that the chart positions from OCC are archived at ChartStats. And it's under the section "Sourcing guide". I have put this source in other GAs and even a FL.--12345abcxyz20082009 (talk) 15:27, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
- Ref 17- what makes Partizan a reliable source? The link is also unclear?
- What's wrong with Partizan? Their about page states they are reliable and I have also used this source at Lily Allen discography, which is FL. I removed IMDB and WhoSampled and replaced them. --12345abcxyz20082009 (talk) 15:27, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
- Am I right in understanding that Partizan is a company that aided in the production of the video, rather than some ezine? J Milburn (talk) 15:53, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
- I believe so, yes. I think they are affiliated with the producers.--12345abcxyz20082009 (talk) 19:44, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
- Am I right in understanding that Partizan is a company that aided in the production of the video, rather than some ezine? J Milburn (talk) 15:53, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
- What's wrong with Partizan? Their about page states they are reliable and I have also used this source at Lily Allen discography, which is FL. I removed IMDB and WhoSampled and replaced them. --12345abcxyz20082009 (talk) 15:27, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
Based on discussion and changes above, I am now happy to promote the article. J Milburn (talk) 01:00, 27 January 2010 (UTC)