Talk:List of wineries and vineyards in Maine

This article was nominated for deletion. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination:

No consensus, 31 March 2019, see discussion.
no consensus, 3 November 2009 (UTC), see discussion.

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Maine

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Notes

I removed two wineries from this site because Maine Mead had no credible info on the site that was listed and Mitchell winery was speedy deleted for non notability and not producing actual products. Wineguy64 (talk) 03:55, 1 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I had this discussion with another user a while back... both are cited, and therefore on this list. Also, Mitchell is producing, they have 2 different products for sale at the moment... I did not revert your edits before talking here, because I didn't want it to look like an edit war. The list matches other lists such as List of Oregon wineries and vineyards, where the list is formed, but only includes those wineries that are verifiable (website shows they are open and producing), and the redlinks are left there for future stubification... - Adolphus79 (talk) 04:02, 1 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Note: After checking Maine Mead Works' website, I understand their being removed, there is no verification there... - Adolphus79 (talk) 04:03, 1 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

So I did a search for the company in Google and came up with nothing. I looked around the site and their 'press releases' seem to be nothing more then a couple lines of text. Their webpage list no physical location or physical location where you can buy their products., so I'm pretty sure that this is a recreational homebrewer with enough extra time on his hands to make a webpage. If we allow anyone with a website to be included in the list without other sources that require some verification of an actual winery existing, then I believe we destroy the integrity of the list. I also am not trying to get in an edit war, so I'm going to change it back to my edit and maybe we can bring in a third party to help us see things more clearly?Wineguy64 (talk) 15:28, 1 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The 04-15-08 Press Release states that the wine is available on retail stores at a grocery store, and they've also won a competition as a commercial winery. I would understand if (as the case with Maine Mead Works), there was no way to verify that they were producing or selling, but the website for Mitchell clearly does so. The Contact Us page has an address and phone number for the winery (per your physical location comment). I really don't think this is just a homebrewer with a webpage. I would love to hear what RfC brings to this discussion... - Adolphus79 (talk) 17:01, 1 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the clarifying links. I'm sure they'll help in the discussion. I would feel a lot better about including this winery if we could verify it through another source, you have to admit the website does seem a little 'amateur' in scope, none the less if it is a legitimate winery it should be included in the list.Wineguy64 (talk) 17:50, 1 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Bump... With no RfC activity in the last week, and the major concern being at least some kind of WP:RS confirmation (see Bangor Daily News link below), I'm going to wait a couple more days, then restore Mitchell Winery. - Adolphus79 (talk) 14:09, 11 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

RfC: Is Mitchell Winery Relevant Enough for inclusion

Is Mitchell Winery Relevant Enough for inclusion in the list of wineries and vineyards in Maine?If so what determines if a winery is relevant enough to be included in this list?Wineguy64 (talk) 15:37, 1 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

My 3O: Leave it out until it can be WP:RS'ed. Might want to ask someone local to the fair if they can find a newspaper or other documentation which independently substantiates the fair win. Note that fair ribbons don't necessarily mean that a vendor is commercial, either--that could be entirely consistent with a hobbyist. I did a couple of database searches and found a Mitchell Winery in Australia, but that's not too helpful, sorry. By all means, leave it here on the talk page and keep looking, though. Jclemens (talk) 05:01, 2 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm working on that, but I don't know if any newspapers are going to cover the minute tidbits of info such as who won each competition. That won't be until this upcoming week, if at all, because the fair isn't over until this weekend. - Adolphus79 (talk) 05:32, 2 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Bangor Daily News did happen to mention the competition, as well as Mitchell Winery's win. - Adolphus79 (talk) 06:18, 6 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

RFC comment:Everything needs a reliable source. This is not negotiable. And Wikipedia is not a crystal ball for future notability. The other issue is that the article itself should set forth verifiable inclusion criteria. Otherwise, it's a random list, wish is something Wikipedia is WP:NOT. Cool Hand Luke 20:32, 2 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Correct problems, don't delete

The problem is not that these lists should not exist, but rather than they should not link to the winery websites and should instead have third-party references. Take List of wineries in New Mexico as an example. Every winery without an article has a citation to a newspaper review of a wine or the winery. This is sufficient to establish notability in a list, they don't have to be notable enough for a standalone article to be included in the list. This was established in the AfD discussion for that list.

Note, I personally don't like the table format for this, in a strange way it actually encourages expansion. Better to break the list into recognized subregions within the state. Skyerise (talk) 17:41, 7 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah I feel that a long list of redlinked wineries is not really the way to do this (and I agree that table format seems odd for this) but there may not be enough regions in Maine to require subdivisions. If there are notable wineries, then it's okay to have a list of them on its own page. Otherwise, yes, this seems like a directory which Wikipedia is not and so this content should be on the other Maine wine page. Jessamyn (talk) 18:19, 7 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note that Wikiproject wine has a navbox specifically for these list articles, made I think after New Mexico was done right. It's sparsely populated, so fixing the problems in eight articles seems quite doable. Skyerise (talk) 19:05, 7 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

As small as Maine wine currently is, and considering that all we have from the current ref is a simple list of wineries in operation, I am leaning towards: Merge into Maine wine as a short paragraph blurb and an embedded (bulleted?) list of those that either have an article or independent reliable source, for the most basic of notability concerns and general list rules. Just the winery name, because that's all the one current semi reliable ref can provide (plus the one that actually has an article). It would be nice if we could find a somewhat current list from a better source, newspapers, travel books, etc. And if the region grows and there is a decent sized well sourced list later, we can always just split it back off. - Adolphus79 (talk) 20:17, 7 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I propose this list be redirected to List of wineries in New England. Skyerise (talk) 18:41, 8 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I like that idea. Turn into a list (from a table) and put it on that page hwich can be linked from Maine wines. Jessamyn (talk) 20:13, 8 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]