Talk:List of wars by death toll/Archive 3

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

New image reversed

I added a new image to the "Charts and graphs" section (example below) which was promptly removed (reverted) by a user with the explanation that it is an "Ugly image that takes up way too much space". I would appreciate some feedback from other users regarding this matter and weather it makes sense to include the image in the page or not.

Seven deadliest wars after 1900. The length of each spiral segment is proportional to the war's duration and its area size to its death toll.

Xkdhd4956 (talk) 10:17, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

This is honestly a really good image! I would love to see it on this page ParthNaik1605 (talk) 05:49, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

This image should certainly be reinserted. It complies with the conditions laid out in the 'Bible' of charts and graphs, The Visual Display of Quantitative Information by Edward R. Tufte (1983, Graphics Press). The ideal graph, according to Tufte, should synthesise a wealth of complex information into simple figures which can be understood at a glance, should combine multiple parameters in a single display (as this does death toll and war duration) and, if possible, should have an attractive aesthetic quality. The information in this graph could easily have been presented as a dot plot with war deaths on one axis and duration on the other, but that would have been sterile and without aesthetic. I have not read the full explanation of the above user for removing the image, but editors should be reminded that doing such radical surgery for purely subjective reasons ('Ugly image...too much space') violates Wikipedia policy and is a disservice to its users. C.bonsin (talk) 19:31, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

Current deaths chart could use a refresh

I propose an alternative chart.

Conflict death tolls by year and number.

Death toll number is from a version of this page with "geometric mean" column, which was present in Dec 2022, but no longer.

Python code to generate plot can be made available as a GitHub gist. Numbers and dates can be easily edited to update figure in future.

Note that 3 Kingdoms is missing because it wasn't present at the time I pulled the data.

Would error bars on the benefit the visual? Benando0 (talk) 01:06, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

And voila, an example of how not to make a graph (see my comment above about the removed graphic). This chart is too busy and both the x and y axes are confusing. Neither corresponds to either a linear or log scale. The reader has to work very hard to understand it and it has no aesthetic. Its only virtue is that it includes more conflicts than the above graph, but that also contributes to its 'business'. C.bonsin (talk) 19:37, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

Reconquista - Wrong death toll, terrible source.

The source of the Reconquista is the 1897 religious text "The Rationalist's Manual" by the author Aletheia M.D. which is a pseudonym. "The Rationalist's Manual" is not a historical source, it is not a historical text, it is entirely focused on it's criticism of christanity aspect and partly talks about theology and ethics. In the entire text, only one singular "unsourced" paragraph has a death toll, or mentions Spain. ( he mentions a source "History of Conflict Between Religion and Science", by Draper, though I haven`t found any deathtoll about the Spanish Reconquista, this work is also digitalized and pubically available ). This is the part of Rationalist Manual.

"Let us look for a moment at the number of victims sacrificed on the altars of the Christian Moloch : 1.000.000 perished during the early Arian schism; 1.000.000 during the Carthaginian struggle; 7.000.000 during the Saracen slaughters. In Spain 5.000.000 perished during the eight Crusades; 2.000.000 of Saxons and Scandinavians lost their lives in opposing the introduction of the blessings of Christianity; 1.000.000 were destroyed in the Holy Wars against the Netherlands, Albigenses, Waldenses and Huguenots; 30.000.000 Mexicans and peruvians were slaughteed ere they could be convinced of the beauties of the Christian creed; 9.000.000 were burned for witchcraft; Total : 56.000.000" ( on page 88 )

I personally believe whoever added the 7 million number, was making a mistake and wrongly assumed the 7 million number of the Saracen-slaughter was about Spain, whereas the Rationalist's Manual talks about 5 million in Spain. In any case both numbers are awfully wrong.

The number of the witch-burnings should be especially telling what sort of man and what sort of text this was. During the actual witch-hunts, only between 35.000 - 50.000 people died, not 9 million. The only number that is somewhat accurate is the "1 million in the Holy wars against Netherlands, Albigenses, Waldenses and Huguenots", all other numbers are ridiculous.

The entire "Rationalist Manual" is public and freely available on the google preview. ArthasDayne (talk) 09:00, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

How can these figures be correct for Spain? Its population was only 5 million in 711 at the time of the Muslim conquest and had only grown by 1 to 2 million by the end of the last Crusade. C.bonsin (talk) 19:45, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

Guatemalan Civil War

As many as 200,000 lost their lives during the Guatemalan civil war (1960-1996), 83 percent of whom were Mayan. 83.32.114.38 (talk) 17:45, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

If someone could fix Iraq invasion 2003

The begining of 2003 invasion did not claim 800,000-1,000,000 71.30.83.216 (talk) 07:31, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Should the current Sudan war be included here?

Death toll estimates are wildly different, ranging from 15,000-150,000 2A06:C701:4448:9D00:8367:B773:5B9:30DA (talk) 05:31, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

Kurukshetra War

Motion to remove fictional wars from the page. Kurukshetra War sounds like one, with ghouls and spirits, and death toll being larger than the world population at the time. 94.158.61.129 (talk) 06:21, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

EarthDude, why?

User EarthDude have just removed all the wars from the list except a few most deadly ones. Why was it done? Was this comprehensive list of many dozens of conflicts at more than 25,000 deaths each a nuisance to someone? I beg an explanation.

Regarding the article's format and information

The article preciously was in a horrible state. Most of the wars had no references, and a lot had completely incorrect information. There was a lot of original research.

The article's design was very weird too. 'List of wars by death toll' means that all the wars should be listed from most to least deadly, not based on when they happened. Also, for some reason, the wars were divided into pre-modern and modern sections. It was a mess. The article needed a rework.

In the new one, I've also fixed a lot of issues it had previously, such as defining what a war is. EarthDude (talk) 13:14, 17 September 2024 (UTC)