Talk:List of universities and colleges affiliated with the Southern Baptist Convention

This article was nominated for deletion on 2 April 2008. The result of the discussion was no consensus.

Degree of affiliation

I find this category confusing, as the degree of affiliation for these institutions varies widely. Some on this list are very closely aligned with their states' Baptist associations, while others have no existing ties and are listed simply for historical reasons. This easily leads to misinformation, particularly when there is now a large Baptist-related template on many of the institutions' pages. I would prefer to see this list limited to schools that are current members of the International Association of Baptist Colleges and Universities. WildCowboy (talk) 21:21, 16 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that the category is very confusing. It appears that very little thought was given to adding some schools, such as Wake Forest University, whose article clearly states that it is no longer affiliated with the Southern Baptist Church. At least one other school was added that has no current affiliation, and there probabably are others. I have a question about use of the International Association of Baptist Colleges and Universities. Are all of those schools "Southern" Baptist? If not, this entire category should be deleted. Ward3001 (talk) 22:05, 16 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, there are most definitely other schools. As I've noted, the University of Richmond completely severed its ties in 1999 after scaling back their relationship dramatically as far back as 1970. Furman has disaffiliated, and yet the remain on the list. Same with Belmont...the lawsuit between Belmont and the TBC was settled last fall to allow for amicable disaffiliation. Averett disaffiliated a short time ago, and they are not on this list. These schools all fit the description at the top of the list, as they do have historical affiliations and were founded by Southern Baptists, but the title of the article/template gives no hint to the historical nature, and thus provide misleading information when mentioned or included on other pages. One other issue here is that the Southern Baptist Convention has delegated the educational aspects of things to the individual state conventions, so that has muddled the situation as historic and current affiliations have evolved. I can't say for sure whether all of the schools in the IABCU are affiliated with state conventions of the SBC, but a quick glance suggests that at least nearly all of them. Here is an interesting article about the 2006 name change and the purpose of the IABCU...they definitely want to expand beyond just the Southern Baptist schools. WildCowboy (talk) 23:55, 16 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In consideration of this discussion, I propose that the phrase at the top of the list that reads "affiliated, historically affiliated, or founded by persons, conventions or agencies of the Southern Baptist Convention" be changed to "currently affliated with the Southern Baptist Convention". I further propose that if there is any doubt about a school's affiliation, that it should be removed from the list immediately unless the school's affliation is unequivocally stated by a reliable source that is appropriately cited. That should conform the list to Wikipedia's WP:V policy.

I also propose that any schools that are removed from the list should also be removed from Template:Southern Baptist Colleges‎.

If there is no objection to this proposal within a week or so, I think we should proceed with the changes.

Opinions? Ward3001 (talk) 00:38, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with that proposal...the existing criteria are just too broad to be useful. While we wait a bit to allow for other input, I'll try to make notes in this article about those institutions that are no longer affiliated. That should make it easier to cut the list down to appropriate size when the time comes. WildCowboy (talk) 04:15, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

We've had a recent reversion to add removed schools back, citing the example of Duke and Emory being included in Category:Universities and colleges affiliated with the United Methodist Church. While I appreciate the reference to precedent, I do not agree that the situations are as similar as they may appear to be. According to the UMC category page, the criteria for inclusion is that schools are "members of the International Association of Methodist-related Schools, Colleges, and Universities (IAMSCU)." I would propose that a similar standard be used for Southern Baptist schools, such as membership in the IABCU as discussed above. Additionally, two-thirds of Duke's trustees are elected by the Methodist Church, and all trustees at Emory must be confirmed by the Methodist Church, so I would argue that both of those institutions have a substantial current affiliation with the Methodist Church. WildCowboy (talk) 18:14, 16 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]