Talk:List of the oldest schools in the United Kingdom

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Schools List

Lists are a good source of information. However they may be dated and can sometimes be replaced by categories. Victuallers 09:30, 27 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There is much claim and counter-claim in Wikipedia over the various "oldest" schools in the UK - with the best list only including independent schools. This article is intended to redress the balance and include both state and independent schools. It sets out the claimed dates and (eventually) the sources. I expect much comment and movement of claims, as the various sources are reviewed. Ian Cairns 08:19, 2 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I would like to add "Dunfermline High School", Fife Scotland which is still in existence today. It was founded in 1468 and so should be recorded in the fourteen century list. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.18.17.206 (talk) 16:40, 16 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'll also add Felkirk School built in 1580 next to Felkirk Church, near Hodroyd, South Hiendley, Yorkshire. Fully restored and looking well

What is the value of having a list of extant schools? Which ones are on it and which are not looks a little silly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.173.144.213 (talk) 12:51, 17 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Proof

I am concerned that an anon has edited out the table structure, which contained some citations of proof of antiquity. As it stands, the article is probably easier to amend, but, without a column for the earliest extant record, there is every chance for claim and counter-claim.

When the recent additional entries have settled down, I suggest that this list moves back to table structure to maintain that all-important citation column. Ian Cairns 23:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think that I'm right in saying that Winchester College has the oldest continually recorded history: documents relating to its foundation (such as statutes), lists of scholars, etc. Millbanks (talk) 10:22, 1 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Blue Coat School

Most of the Blue Coat Schools are probably eligable for inclusion on this list. Sladen (talk) 06:03, 4 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Northern Ireland

I was scanning through England and Wales to see if there were any other schools with the same founding date as mine in Northern Ireland and I discovered my school there. I suggest that you move all Nothern Ireland schools to the section entitled "The Kingdom of Ireland and Northern Ireland" as that is were they should go, I have already done this for Foyle and Londonderry College. mspence835 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mspence835 (talk • contribs) 19:49, 5 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Non-extant schools

The lead sentence says: "This list ... contains extant schools" and yet the first part of the England list is of non-extant schools. Wales likewise starts with an (incorrectly formatted) list of non-extant schools. We need to either:

modify the lead or
remove the non-extant schools.

Which would editors prefer? Martin of Sheffield (talk) 15:49, 4 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

No replies in just under 3 weeks. I'll go ahead and be WP:BOLD then. I'm going for option 2, if anyone wants to start a list of extinct schools it can be on another page. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 14:24, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Barrow 1618 Church of England Primary School

This school has recently (June '18) been added, but there is no link to any further information. The school website says on its home page "Our school was opened in September 2012, under the Free School legislation and occupies the site of one of Shropshire’s oldest known schools, founded in 1618 for the local working boys of the area." This would appear to exclude it from the list, however on the school's "about us">"our history" there is the statement: "For almost 400 years, the school in Barrow has catered for local communities and striven to offer a free, moral, practical and diverse education." The link to British History Online doesn't help in this matter.

Can anyone clarify: Is the existing free school a direct descendant of the original 1618 school with an unbroken (or very nearly so) history, or, is the school a new school which took over old buildings but with no other connection to the original? Martin of Sheffield (talk) 13:01, 18 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I have deleted the entry for the moment until appropriate sources can be found to justify inclusion. In 1618 the term primary school did not exist. This sound like a new establishment on an old site with no continuous educational presence. However, if you can find better evidence, please feel free to re-add it. Regards Velella ^{Velella Talk} 14:18, 18 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Velella: Wrong Barrow! You looked at http://barrowcofeschool.com/ which is Barrow CE Primary School, Great Barrow, Chester, Cheshire, CH3 7HW. The school under question is http://www.barrow1618school.co.uk/ which is Barrow 1618 CofE Primary Free School, Barrow, Broseley, Shropshire, TF12 5BW. I know it's easy, I got caught out when I first checked up! :-)

"In 1618 John Slaney, lord of Marsh, built a school on Barrow hill, which he maintained during his life and endowed by will proved in 1632: ... The master might take private pupils, but to earn his full salary he was to teach, free of charge, 20 poor boys to read and write, fitting them for apprenticeship." A P Baggs, G C Baugh, D C Cox, Jessie McFall and P A Stamper, 'Barrow', in A History of the County of Shropshire: Volume 10, Munslow Hundred (Part), the Liberty and Borough of Wenlock, ed. C R J Currie (London, 1998), pp. 221-233. British History Online http://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/salop/vol10/pp221-233 [accessed 18 June 2018].

In 1618 "Poor boys" would be out to work or apprenticed by 12, so the school would have covered what today we would call primary. IMHO the question is whether the modern free school can legitimately don the mantle of the original 1618 school; if it can then there is justification for entry into the list. I'll not revert your deletion pro. tem. but we do need to find out if there was continuity. Regards, Martin of Sheffield (talk) 14:50, 18 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

References

Extended content

An IP user has recently added Burnsall Primary School which as a primary school would normally be considered WP:NOTNOTABLE. However a quick bit of ~~Googling~~DuckDuckGoing reveals a continuous history from 1602 to the present. Since the school is not notable it does (and presumably never will have) a wiki page of its own, however it does belong on this list due to its age. Most schools on this list refer back to their respective pages where citations establishing the date are detailed, but for a few there is a claimed date and no supporting page. As I see it there are three options:

Do nothing and accept uncited date claims as at present.
Work to provide citations for all schools.
Require citations for those schools whose date is not attested to on a blue-linked wiki page.

My personal preference is for the third option. Option 1 is asking for fly-by taggers to have a field day and opens us up to fraudulent claims. Option 2 is an excessive amount of work, most of which will simply duplicate citations on existing pages. Hence option 3. Comments welcome below! Can we aim to resolve this by 14 December please? Martin of Sheffield (talk) 12:28, 7 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Option 1 – do nothing

Option 2 – cite everything

Option 3 – cite unlinked schools

support as above. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 12:28, 7 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
This would be my preferred approach, though I'm not keen on the word "require", because that kind of wording tends to lead some people to just delete a bunch of useful stuff without doing any investigation. I'd also go for "do nothing" as similar to this approach, that is, rely on the default Wikipedia policies rather than craft anything special - ask or look for a citation, and if none is forthcoming then remove it only after that. I agree that citing everything would be overkill. -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 13:45, 7 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Would Only require be preferable? Martin of Sheffield (talk) 14:33, 7 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

That depends on how and where it's ultimately expressed. I accept the general gist of what you're saying, hence here I am under option 3. -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 14:53, 7 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Done

Oldest 'named' schools on historic record

I'm sure the Celtic teacher in Iceni will be very upset that Wikipedia does not consider her lessons on The Ever-Living Ones taught to every generation of her tribe was not considered a school. ModernMephisto (talk) 17:53, 17 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Could look for archaeological finds on pagan pedagogy. They had buildings and their lore had to be passed down from generation to generation. ModernMephisto (talk) 18:05, 17 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]