Talk:List of supporters of the BDS movement

dead supporters

Why does this list include Stephen Hawking, who died 14 March 2018? Vexations (talk) 18:40, 2 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Because he supported BDS.ImTheIP (talk) 18:54, 2 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

ImTheIP, I think that is problematic. Per the source, Hawking has not made a public statement about BDS, but rescinded his acceptance of an invitation headline the fifth annual president's conference in 2013. To list him as a supporter of a movement in the present tense, nota bene, is not something that the source supports. Vexations (talk) 20:24, 2 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I hope the quote I added to his footnote convinces you. There are a multitude of other sources that also claims that he supported the academic boycott of Israel.ImTheIP (talk) 20:35, 2 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

ImTheIP, the very least you could do is change support to supported, although I doubt that suffices. I think the fact that it exists under this title is problematic. For example: Suppose that I oppose BDS (and I'm a notable figure with a Wikipedia article), and I express my opposition to a boycott of Israel. You add me to List of people who oppose the BDS movement. Imagine that a little while later, the Israeli government does the unthinkable and introduces apartheid. I change my mind: I now publicly state that I no longer oppose BDS, and support a boycott. Or imagine that I support BDS because I think they are non-violent, but later I notice that they've changed; they now want to kill all Jewish people. I'm horrified and publicly renounce my support for BDS immediately. My views of Isreali politics haven't changed, but BDS has changed, and I now oppose it. Now how are you going to manage those lists? The problem with your inclusion criteria is that they are stated in the present tense; people who support. If we make a claim about a fact, it helps to make sure that that fact is not subject to change; To say that I, at some point in time, expressed my opposition to, or support for BDS will always remain true, even if I change my mind. But the claim that I support or oppose BDS (even after my death), does not. And that applies to Hawking as well. We cannot know if he would have supported BDS in its current form, and to imply that he did is not OK. Vexations (talk) 21:33, 2 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The back story to this page is Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions which grew very large with, in my opinion, pointless attempts to list every supporter and opponent of the movement under the sun. So I created this page and List of people who oppose the BDS movement to offload material. Feel free to help me add names. :)

You are right that people can change their mind, I don't think that is a major problem though. If people stop supporting the boycott against Israel we remove them from this list, just like we remove people that stop practicing a straight edge lifestyle from List of people who follow a straight edge lifestyle. Not sure I understand your objection about the name either. We have List of democratic socialists and it is implied that they have professed support for Democratic socialism in the past but we cannot know if they still are democratic socialists (unless they explicitly said they arent).

But I'm open to ideas on renaming these two articles I created. My idea is that it should include people that are on either end of the spectrum. If they say that "BDS is antisemitic" then they go on the "List of people who oppose ..." list and if they say that "Israel should be boycotted like South Africa" they go on this list. People who are inbetween, like Madonna, Norman Finkelstein and Noam Chomsky don't belong on either list.

Btw, Hawking stated in 2013 that he supported the academic boycott so imho, he is a clear cut case.ImTheIP (talk) 22:09, 2 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

ImTheIP, I maintain that you cannot say that a recently deceased person supports anything at all, and it is a violation of WP:BLP. Vexations (talk) 10:47, 3 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

We have lots of similar lists on Wikipedia though, List of advocates of basic income, List of people who have expressed views relating to overpopulation as a problem, List of people who identify as sexually fluid, List of vegans, List of Oxfordian theory supporters, List of integral thinkers and supporters. Eventually every person listed on any such list will be recently deceased but I don't think that is reason enough not to compile the list. Wrt the name of the article, yes that could be changed. I'm open to suggestions.ImTheIP (talk) 15:28, 3 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

ImTheIP, That eventually all the people on the list will die makes it worse, not better. List of people who have expressed support for the BDS movement would be slightly more accurate. Tighten up the inclusion criteria to require that they explicitly mention BDS, after its establishment 2005, not just any boycott of Israel Category:Boycotts of Israel Vexations (talk) 15:47, 3 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Source discussion

@Vexations: Why do you think the source is unreliable? ImTheIP (talk) 21:31, 2 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

ImTheIP, because it's an opinion piece, not reporting. Try WP:RSN if you want it included. Vexations (talk) 21:36, 2 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I see your point, I didn't realize that the article was anti-BDS. I find a better source.ImTheIP (talk) 22:12, 2 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The new source is an opinion piece written by Amin Husain titled "Against Amnesia: The Cultural Boycott of Israel Matters" published on a federated blog. The title and the text of the piece makes it clear that he supports BDS.ImTheIP (talk) 22:27, 2 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

EI is depreciated, are there alternatives?

It is depreciated per RFC: Electronic Intifada, is there a better source for those claims? FortunateSons (talk) 15:09, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]