Talk:List of songs recorded by George Harrison

For You Blue

According to the Wikipedia page for this song, it peaked in the U.S. at 71 and not 1 as the list says. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 148.126.100.82 (talk) 19:12, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

Sun King

Sun king does not have George Harrison on lead vocals, I've removed it from the list. Sebastian341 (talk) 19:36, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Table format

Took me a while to get used to this new-look list, now set as a table. I think it would've been considerate if the reformatting was run by this talk page first, back in May or whenever it was – but anyway ... Dbone828's done a great job, must've been a huge amount of work. I keep coming up against the same obstacle, though, when I look at this table: it's arranged with the assumption that a reader knows exactly where to look for a song; songs aren't arranged in alpha order, say, nor in (apparent) chronological order of release until one looks across at the second column. Like I say, this gets me every time, even though I've come to the list a good few times, because my eyes go naturally to the far left-hand column, looking for some definition of the format – which isn't there. So, how about setting this list with Year of Release as the far-left column? I did a quick experiment up to the end of 1964 – this is what I mean.

Problems arise once we get to songs with multiple versions. "Roll Over Beethoven" is the first one, and obviously the issue'll get more extreme once we come to the likes of "While My Guitar", "Something", "My Sweet Lord" etc. My capabilities on table formatting are absolutely zilch so, assuming others agree the year-defined option is the way to go, does anyone know how to set subsequent years of release for a song so that they appear indented across the column? Hope this makes sense.

Oh, and it's seems that live versions of "Roll Over Beethoven" and "Everybody's Trying" are missing – I'm thinking Beatles at the Hollywood Bowl and Anthology versions. Thanks! Cheers, JG66 (talk) 02:16, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

Where is logic?

Apparently this article considers a "song recorded by George Harrison" to be any song or instrumental piece Harrison wrote or co-wrote, whether or not he participated in its recording (or without regard to what he extent he participated in its recording), or, conversely, any song in which Harrison sang lead, whether or not he participated in its composition and whether or not the recording it appears on was released in his name. It's rather an understatement to say that this is inconsistent. Furthermore, recorded doesn't mean wrote, and singing on a record is no more recording than playing on a record. Harrison played on all but a few songs released under the group name "the Beatles". TheScotch (talk) 12:21, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

I suggest one list of songs released under the name "the Beatles" in which Harrison sang lead to be called "List of Beatles songs sung by George Harrison" and an entirely separate list of songs written or co-written by George Harrison to be called "List of songs by George Harrison". These would not only be much more consistent and logical; they would also be more useful and less unwieldy. Making the two lists out of the existing one would require very little rewriting, moreover. TheScotch (talk) 12:31, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

No Pirate Song?

In 1976 , George appeared on his friend Eric Idle's television show, Rutland Weekend Television. He sang a song called , "The Pirate Song" , co-written with Eric idle , and performed by George with Neil Innes & Fatso. It was specifically written for the show , and George thought enough of it to reproduce the lyrics in his book "I , Me , Mine". ( Although , there has never been a studio recording of it released … if one exists. ). Another unreleased track , written by him , is "Doin' The Bonzo" , a tribute to The Bonzo Dog Band … but , I don't have enough information to properly elaborate here. 75.104.163.77 (talk) 07:56, 24 September 2017 (UTC)

Apple Jam tracks

Who wrote all the Apple Jam tracks? I see different writers from multiple sources. In the list itself they are all currently credited to Harrison alone. BeatlesLedTV (talk) 22:48, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

I've never been totally clear about this either. When writing All Things Must Pass for GA, I got the impression from Discogs and other sites that with initial pressings of the album in most markets, there were no writing credits as such for the Apple Jam disc (just mention of BMI), but that in a few countries, the sides five and six labels did give Harrison as the songwriter. Castleman & Podrazik's 1976 book All Together Now lists Harrison as the (sole) writer of all five tracks, even though by then Apple acknowledged that "It's Johnny's Birthday" was based on "Congratulations". In ATMP, I included the end note (number 25) saying: "The 2001 album booklet lists the musicians on these tracks straight after the song titles although publishing rights for all bar 'It's Johnny's Birthday' are with Harrisongs only.[288] Inglis gives composers' credit to all the participants,[289] while Leng acknowledges Harrison alone.[290]" That's about as authoritative as we could be, as far as I could tell in 2013.

I'll check the 2014 reissue but, personally, I've never been convinced that Clapton, Gordon, Whitlock, Voormann etc are actually credited as writers of the Jam pieces. So perhaps the credits we give for the 2001 remaster are wrong; I'm more inclined to think, based on the 2001 booklet and the secondary sources (those books by Leng and Inglis being published well after 2001), that we shouldn't list the other musicians. From memory, I was just trying to live with what another editor had added, even though they hadn't included a source. JG66 (talk) 23:53, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

Just looked in the 2014 booklet, and I don't think it makes the situation any clearer. On the lyric sheet, where songwriting and publishing info is given, the names of the participants are listed below the title of each Apple Jam track, which has always been the case (for years it was believed that Clapton only played on these tracks because, in the UK at least, he wasn't listed under the separate musicians credits for the album). That could be taken as meaning that the participants are credited as songwriters …

Only problem is the following also appears, as the final text on the lyric sheet: "All songs written by George Harrison and published by Harrisongs Ltd except 'I'd Have You Anytime' written by George Harrison and Bob Dylan and published by Harrisongs Ltd & Big Sky Music, and 'If Not For You' written by Bob Dylan and published by Big Sky Music, and 'It's Johnny's Birthday' based on 'Congratulations' by Bill Martin & Phil Coulter and published by Peter Maurice Music Co/EMI Music Publishing Ltd." So, to state the obvious, the only exceptions to "All songs written by George Harrison" seem to be I'd Have You Anytime, If Not for You, and It's Johnny's Birthday. JG66 (talk) 03:53, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

Alright then for now we'll leave the writers for the Jam tracks as be. Maybe we can have notes for the tracks saying who appears on them and how the writing credits remain unclear on all versions of the album. BeatlesLedTV (talk) 21:58, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

Agreed. That's probably the best way to handle it. JG66 (talk) 01:39, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

Questions about scope/suggestions

@BeatlesLedTV: Further to what we were discussing on my talk page, what did you have in mind for the lead section? I'm not clear what's needed or relevant in this sort of a list – and that's partly to do with the scope (which I can see a couple of editors have queried over the years).

I'd say, compared to how it was in June, i.e. before your first edit here, you've improved the list no end. Which is fantastic, because it made no sense before. But, like the IP user above, I wonder about the omission of "The Pirate Song", and also about the Traveling Wilburys songs, especially the ones that, with the revised publishing credits, are recognised as being majority Harrison compositions, regardless of the group songwriting credits. (This issue is commented on by a few biographers – I'll have to check but I think they're referring to "Handle with Care" and "End of the Line". In the same way, from memory, the publishing credits were changed to acknowledge that something like "Tweeter and the Monkey Man" was a Dylan song effectively, "Last Night" a Tom Petty song, etc.)

As a comparison, List of songs recorded by Paul McCartney currently includes any songs McCartney recorded as a member of The Fireman and Wings. In the case of Wings, this makes for some bizarre inclusions, imo: e.g. "Cook of the House", which is sung by Linda McCartney (and so strongly associated with her, I had no idea Paul even had a hand in writing it); "Again and Again", "Medicine Jar" and "Time to Hide", which were all written and sung by other members of Wings, but not McCartney. So, although I'm not saying that the approach in List of Songs recorded by Paul McCartney is one we should blindly follow (in fact, the answer is most likely to drop Cook, Medicine Jar, Time to Hide, etc from that list), it does make the omission of the Wilburys tracks here kinda puzzling. Certainly, all Harrison and Beatles biographers treat the Wilburys releases as de facto Harrison solo projects. That's not the case in Dylan and Petty books and discographies, I've found, but that makes sense: away from the few weeks of group writing and recording in California, in 1988 and 1990, Dylan, Petty and to some extent Lynne all switched straight back to regular career activities, whereas Harrison dedicated his time to all things Wilburys, whether it was overdubbing and finishing the recordings at Friar Park (which, admittedly, also involved Lynne), handling the business side of things with his record company, Warner Bros., or doing most of the promotion.

I also wonder about the inclusion of the Dylan, Clapton and Lynne images. Clapton plays on a good number of the songs in the list, and Lynne co-produced quite a few, but the Dylan pic seems odd, particularly without any coverage of the Wilburys in the list. I'm not sure any of those images are needed here, actually – again, perhaps it's got something to do with what we plan to say in the lead text.

Also, what about Harrison's live versions of Beatles tracks such as "Something", "While My Guitar Gently Weeps", "Here Comes the Sun", "For You Blue", "Taxman", "Roll Over Beethoven", etc – do they not become "songs recorded by George Harrison" if he includes new versions of them on releases issued under his own name, even if it's in a live setting rather than studio? And, the officially released alt versions/early takes/demos of many songs that are included here (e.g. all the other Early Takes tracks; "Let It Down", "Sue Me, Sue You Blues" demos; alt versions of "What Is Life", "Dark Horse") or a song that's not (alt instrumental "The Inner Light", a bonus track on the 2014 Wonderwall Music CD)? All these appeared in the pre-10 October version of the list. And I must admit that made sense to me – particularly as, with a couple of the Concert for Bangladesh live tracks, say, they're songs that were included on Harrison's only career-spanning greatest hits compilation, Let It Roll.

Happy to be educated on the correct approach to this sort of a list. I'm trying to make sense of the rationale for inclusion, while at the same time demonstrating my lack of experience in this area, no doubt. Hopefully others will weigh in here, because, taking the McCartney list as an example, it doesn't seem as though a consistent, logical approach is being applied across the whole encyclopaedia. JG66 (talk) 03:45, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

The McCartney list is definitely one I look to improve on in the future and definitely isn't a good example for crafting these lists. I think we could include songs by the Traveling Wilburys that were written mostly or entirely by Harrison by the ones that weren't I think we shouldn't include. I've mainly been going off of other "songs recorded by..." lists that have become featured for help with making the leads. I've also recently written an FLC, List of songs recorded by Led Zeppelin that will become featured soon. For that lead I followed other lists.

I was also wondering if we should include Harrison's Beatles songs that he performed live and I think we should as some were released on live albums under Harrison's name officially. But in terms of alternate takes and things like that we don't include those on these type of lists. We just include the original release of the song. If users are interested they can click on the actual song article to find out more about alternate takes and things like that.

For the lead, I needs to be engaging and give users a good insight on Harrison's career. I'm thinking start off about his career with the Beatles but not too much as that's not the main subject. Then maybe begin talking about his impressive solo career start with All Things Must Pass, how it continued with The Concert for Bangladesh and Living in the Material World, but then took a downturn with Dark Horse and Extra Texture. You don't want to go too in depth as the focus here should be the songs. When I was writing my Led Zeppelin list, I made this mistake at first and made the lead too long and not focused on the songs, until I was given feedback and then shortened it. If you're really confused I would look at other "songs recorded by..." that have become featured lists for help on writing it. BeatlesLedTV (talk) 15:28, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

Intro text

I've reworded and re-sourced much of this text – some of the refs simply did not support the points being made. In the case of Leng as a source for the statement "his 1974 North American tour received mixed-to-negative reviews", for instance, the source quotes many highly positive reviews – Leng's point being (as summarised on p. 174, in his conclusion to the chapter) that Rolling Stone and some other music publications trashed it, but the tour still received a lot, a majority even, of highly favourable reviews. Rodriguez supports this, with mention that the rock press had an "axe to grind", but smaller or more local outlets were generally far more generous. (I haven't bothered to go into specifics in the text: I've just kept it to "the music press", and cited Rodriguez.) Similarly, there was Holden's 1973 Rolling Stone review of Living in the Material World being used as a source for the statement that "the album continued Harrison's array of ... critical praise." Holden's review is well known as a glowing critique of the album, but it's only an example of critical praise – it can't be taken as a source for a general statement on the album's critical reception.

I found other examples like those two. I know no one likes a smart-arse but … I simply can't believe this is considered "featured" content. The sources obviously weren't even checked, for the introductory paragraphs at least.

The other thing is, how does this text prepare a reader for a list of songs by the artist? It reads more like a discography intro. We hear so much about critical and commercial success (and of Harrison's albums, mainly), it's even bordering on an artist's biographical article. So what supports – i.e. what justifies – the inclusion of the Dylan, Clapton, Lynne et al. images? I'm not saying that none of them belong, but there's nothing in the main text/intro that addresses songs recorded by Harrison, and therefore really makes the images a natural fit with the text. JG66 (talk) 09:49, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

I definitely thank you for making those edits. When I was sourcing the text, I was mainly going through all your in-depth articles & sourcing based on ones I found there. I appreciate your help in making it more reliable. In terms of the songs, I didn't want to go too in-depth for the lead as it shouldn't be too long. I could've brought up how Extra Texture was full of downbeat songs or how Dark Horse contained forgettable songs due in part to his hoarse voice from that period, but I chose to stick away from that so it didn't get too long. I focused more on songs from his Dark Horse Records period as it was also easier in that period.

In terms of the images, they deserve to be here because of how close Harrison was with them during his lifetime. He collaborated with Clapton a countless number of times, he covered and wrote songs with Bob Dylan – a la "I'd Have You Anytime" and "If Nor for You" – and he played with Jeff Lynne on most of his later albums, so I truly think they deserve to be here. But thanks very much for your help improving it. I really appreciate it. BeatlesLedTV (talk) 16:44, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

Well, you seem to be ignoring what I'm saying. First: If you aspire to write featured content here, you should check that the sources support the content. And, obviously, so should reviewers. Despite being regularly encouraged by GA reviewers to take articles I've written or expanded to FAC, I've never bothered, because I can't really see the point. But I know well that, at GA, an article's sourcing gets a helluva lot more scrutiny than has happened here. Yet this is featured content, apparently – "which means it has been identified as one of the best lists produced by the Wikipedia community", to quote the top of this talk page. Gulp.

You say, "In terms of the songs, I didn't want to go too in-depth for the lead as it shouldn't be too long. I could've brought up …" Yeah, but you go way too in-depth about critical and commercial success, which is fairly incidental to song recordings per se. I mean, why should the reception afforded an artist's albums and tours, and/or their career trajectory, define a list of songs recorded under their own name? "Songs recorded" could easily invite (should, imo) some sort of general discussion about collaborators and musical styles. There's nothing even on the spiritual aspect of his songs.

I know full well about Harrison's close associations with Clapton, Dylan, Lynne, etc. But again, you're not addressing the point I've raised. The images just end up as appendages right now, when in fact, if the intro text actually focused on songs recorded by George Harrison, it would ensure that the whole page works synergistically (for want of a better word), from top to bottom. For instance, Clapton (especially) and Dylan were key in helping Harrison surmount any issues relating to a lack of confidence after years of working under the domination of Lennon and McCartney; if that was stated in the text, the inclusion of the pics would be entirely logical. Since it's songs recorded (not "songs written"), Phil Spector could/should also be mentioned and probably pictured too – he helped Harrison achieve the big, soaring sound on many of the All Things Must Pass and The Concert for Bangladesh songs. (On that issue, it's surprising not to see a column allocated to producer(s), in my opinion.) And rather than the things you suggest above about the songs from Dark Horse and Extra Texture, or anything that's currently there on the artist's critical and commercial standing over 1974–75, the lead could mention his move towards soul/R'n'B and a more American sound in those songs recordings. Point being that if the text is actually focused on the songs/recordings, however generally, each element – text, table, images – should complement one another. JG66 (talk) 04:30, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

I'm not ignoring what you're saying (or at least I'm trying not to). I tried to write the lead based on the former featured lists I had written, in terms of scope. This lead in particular has taken me the longest out of all the leads I've written and I tried my best. I originally wrote the Led Zeppelin songs lead more album focused but then reflected it more on songs when it was an FLC. I remember before I even started on this lead I had asked you if you wanted to focus on other projects which is perfectly understandable. So I wrote it myself and tried the best I could. When it was an FLC, other editors mainly helped with the grammar side of things and some rewordings. It's especially hard to confirm book sources when you don't have the actual books so I tried to make do. I also did think about adding a producer col but after I saw Harrison solely produced almost every song he recorded (you obviously know the ones he didn't), I figured it wasn't necessary.

By what you're saying, I think you want or want me to rewrite it. While I am open to doing that, it is commonplace for song lists to give a somewhat detailed background of the albums the artist has released while at the same time talking about the songs they released. If you would like me to change things I will. But how is the question I ask you. You obviously know more about Harrison than I probably ever will so I would appreciate creative input. Or, if you would like to do it yourself that's fine with me too. I'm also happy that his song list is no longer like this. It's come a long way from that and there's always room for improvement. I've also only been editing for less than two years so I'm still learning and improving as well. BeatlesLedTV (talk) 06:27, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

Sorry, yes – I meant to acknowledge that you had invited me to work on the lead, months back. I wrote so much in the comments above, I got carried away and forgot to add mention of that. I guess it was always the stumbling block for me, when you invited me to contribute: what should the introductory text for a list of any artist's song recordings actually say?

Looking at previous threads here (I'd been looking on my talk page, thinking they were there instead), I'm relieved to see I do/did thank you for the work you've done on the list – because it looks absolutely beautiful. I'm just disappointed by the FLC process, and that info from another article comes here and the source does not support it. (The Leng pages about the 1974 tour, for example.) It just seems to have been carelessly carried out, whereas the list itself is top notch.

I'll give the text a go. My thinking is that an element of what I termed "career trajectory" will remain anyway, in very broad terms. I take your point about the Zep songs list and other past examples. JG66 (talk) 09:08, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

I've been working on the text in my sandbox. BeatlesLedTV (and anyone else, of course): how's it looking, do you think? Refs still to come in some cases – right now I'm still trying to massage it into shape, based on scope. I realise it's still pretty lengthy, compared to the current version. JG66 (talk) 14:28, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

JG66 Actually surprised you've been working on this considering our conversation a couple weeks ago! I definitely think it's on the long side. But I do appreciate how you've made it more about the songs, as well as the bigger detail on Dark Horse and Extra Texture. Here are some of my thoughts:

• Opening paragraph looks good
• I thought his 1974 tour took place before and/or during Dark Horse was released? Adding on, wasn't Extra Texture downbeat because of the reactions to the tour AND Dark Horse?
• I do appreciate the inclusion of "This Guitar (Can't Keep from Crying)" as the sequel to "While My Guitar Gently Weeps". I had realized I wanted to include that after it already became featured.
• I think it's still important to mention the fact that Extra Texture was the last on the Apple label.
• I don't think it's necessary to mention Songs by George Harrison. It talks about one song and it's over two sentences.
• You don't need to mention why he took a hiatus after Gone Troppo. I think that's a little overkill and people can find out more on his main page.
• I do think the inclusion of "Not Guilty" and "Circles" is good as they were "White Album" outtakes.

These are my main thoughts. Overall great job on this but I do think it is a little long. AS you previously said it does need more references. But great progress! Let me know what you think.

• "surprised ... considering our conversation a couple weeks ago!" Ah, but I did say "I'll give the text a go", no?(!)
• Some writers do link the despondency on Extra Texture to the critical reaction to Dark Horse, that's true. But I find that the same writers only seem to focus on two famously awful reviews of Dark Horse (in Rolling Stone and the NME) when, in fact, the album received some excellent reviews also. Certainly, Harrison himself never mentioned that he was in any way affected by the reception to Dark Horse, and, unlike Lennon and McCartney, he never read reviews of his albums, so he said; but he had plenty to say (in 1975 interviews and later on) about how the reaction to the 1974 tour informed his mood on Extra Texture. It gets slightly confusing because the album review that has come to define Dark Horse in many ways – Jim Miller's piece for Rolling Stone – represents part III of the magazine's beat-up of the Harrison–Shankar tour, as instigated by Jann Wenner; only about a third or a quarter of the text actually addressed the album, the rest attacking Harrison for his anti-Beatles stance and supposed indifference during the tour. This is a very Wenner phenomenon: for instance, Larry Sloman, who submitted a favourable piece on Harrison's New York concerts, was appalled at how Wenner rewrote it in-house to focus instead only on the bad aspects (so it became "part II"). Wenner's agenda was similarly responsible for, say, the magazine trashing the McCartney album in 1970 (i.e. he rejected Langdon Winner's original, mainly positive review and said, "No, McCartney has to pay for breaking up the Beatles"). On the other hand, in the case of the Stones' 1978 US tour and Dylan's Slow Train Coming album, Wenner overruled senior editors/reviewers such as Dave Marsh and Greil Marcus, and decided to publish highly favourable pieces (written by himself) because, again, the magazine had to reflect his personal tastes. Sorry, this is way more than you probably want or need to know ... Point is, Harrison was quite clear that his resentment in 1975 was centred on Rolling Stone, and specifically Jann Wenner, and he cited the in-house doctoring of the tour feature articles/reviews (the first by Ben Fong-Torres, at the start of the tour, the second by Sloman).
• Extra Texture as final Apple album: I've introduced Wonderwall as the first-ever Apple album, and then there's mention that Thirty Three & 1/3 was Harrison's first on Dark Horse. Don't you think that that combination handles the point adequately? Particularly in light of the current length and the need to be more economical with the available space.
• Yes, agree we can cut mention of Songs by George Harrison. Losing the two sentences would be welcome.
• Surprised you think mention of post-Troppo hiatus should go. I mean, it's there currently on the page, and it explains why there were no, or very few, "songs recorded" by Harrison over 1983–86. Can always absorb the point into the 1987 comeback (e.g. "Having taken a four-year hiatus to focus on his HandMade film company …"). Perhaps I was working too hard to establish a further Dylan link, with "I Don't Want to Do It", admittedly.

Overall, the whole thing needs some judicious cuts, that's a given. All along, I've been comparing the length to that of the current text, on another screen (and wincing). Right now, I just wanted to share what I'd done in terms of its scope. JG66 (talk) 04:33, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

I appreciate it! I actually thought you meant something else by "I'll give the text a go". My bad. I actually had thought Harrison read Rolling Stone's review of Dark Horse and was so hurt by it he never forgave them for the rest of his life? I do agree about what you said about McCartney, especially since that was released the same month he announced he was leaving the Beatles. But about the text, it definitely needs to be toned down a bit. You don't wanna explain too much because that's what his main page is about. So far great job on this! BeatlesLedTV (talk) 16:56, 28 February 2018 (UTC)

No, like I said, it was Rolling Stone's coverage of the tour, and particularly Wenner's obvious "taste-making" intervention, which then rolled on into what masqueraded as an album review. On the other point, to repeat: "the whole thing needs some judicious cuts, that's a given." I've moved on since that last version: here's where we're at right now. Last time I checked, length was just a couple of lines over what's there in the article itself. References still to come, but that's the easy bit. JG66 (talk) 05:29, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

Definitely looks much better. As you already said all that's needed is references. Great progress! BeatlesLedTV (talk) 20:28, 1 March 2018 (UTC)