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Talk:List of political punk songs

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Might get some ideas here: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Fun:Greatest_songs,_liberal_and_conservative#Political
Civic Cat (talk) 00:17, 4 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Issues with this article

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So, this thing is kind of a mess. Trying to chronicle and categorize every political punk song seems like a really daunting task to me. Like, how do you define what is or isn't punk? What do you do about songs that touch on multiple issues (like, say, how consumerism negatively effects the environment)? Is there a criteria for how well known a song or band has to be to make it on the list? It just seems like sort of a futile idea to me. PossiblyRita (talk) 18:30, 15 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Big project, but tractable with community input.
  • If there is any sort of disagreement on whether a band is punk I think the first thing is to see if the song is punk.
    • I will suggest we postpone the debate on whether a non-punk band can release a punk song (and we can have the similar debate about whether it is possible a punk band known for their antipathy towards organized religion to release a non-ironic album of traditional Christmas music.
  • Coming up with topics/categories is also an issue, because they are overlapping and some subsume others. But, that too is a tractable and common knowledge engineering task.
    • I would suggest creation of a template for how we might classify punk songs in general and then if someone else wants to do a page on funny punk songs, punk songs about alien abduction, punk songs about someone's funeral, etc. etc. it gets done the same way so we end up a multi-use Wikidata data set. While I don't know that it is as immediately helpful as one about, say infectious disease, it could be used in some future sophisticated music application that uses face/voice recognition to determine what mood you are in and picks the perfect punk song for you. (Of course there is always a perfect punk song for whatever ails you or is needed to put you back in your place.)
    • I think it would actually be a really cool project. The Music Genome project has some related data, but I don't think it deals at all with the lyrics/content. DrKC MD (talk) 02:28, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Issues with this article

[edit]

So, this thing is kind of a mess. Trying to chronicle and categorize every political punk song seems like a really daunting task to me. Like, how do you define what is or isn't punk? What do you do about songs that touch on multiple issues (like, say, how consumerism negatively effects the environment)? Is there a criteria for how well known a song or band has to be to make it on the list? It just seems like sort of a futile idea to me. PossiblyRita (talk) 18:30, 15 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Removal of content without discussion is not an acceptable practice

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If there are any concerns about the inclusion of listing on here, they should be discussed on this page. If you happen to think someone doesn't fit, don't just remove it, participate in a discussion with the community. The ONLY time when this would be tolerable would be to correct clearly biased, harmful, and incorrect content, particularly health related. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DrKC MD (talk • contribs) 01:59, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, no. The page has been tagged for many years about how it lacks suitable references. Any editor can come in and clean it up without prior discussion. Moreover, the article was a dumpster fire of WP:NOR violations, from the huge number of unreferenced entries, to the eccentric classification scheme dividing the songs into themes. Those themes were completely unsupported by reliable sources breaking them up as such. The problems stem from the very first creation of this page in 2007, and they were never corrected until today. Binksternet (talk) 03:09, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Binksternet why remove a bunch of songs though? Did you think they weren't political? Do you need a source where someone else calls the song political? I'm sure you could've cleaned up the formatting while leaving in the enormous list of songs that people worked at expanding. 47.54.135.207 (talk) 20:19, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@47.54.135.207 like ACAB by the 4 skins for example. Why remove that one from the list? Is it not political, or not punk? 47.54.135.207 (talk) 20:21, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The problem is with WP:Verifiability, a core policy of Wikipedia. Every entry must cite a reliable source describing it as political punk music. I reduced the list to just the ones with cited sources, and I added a few songs with sources.
I would be happy to see the list get expanded, but house policy must be followed. Feel free to add back any song that is described by outside observers as political punk music. And cite the source. Binksternet (talk) 23:28, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Binksternet that's a bit ridiculous. You can't listen to the songs and understand that they're political without someone else explicitly saying so? Fine if that's a rule but it doesn't make any sense for this particular subject. Anyone, and I mean ANYONE, could listen to that 4 skins song I named and understand that it is political. It's explicitly political in nature just due to its title. This isn't an article on a type of bacteria or outer space (subjects where a select few verify information and disseminate it to the rest of us), this is an article on songs that are accessible to anyone to listen to, that anyone who is literate should be able to understand the point of. Makes no sense that you have to source somebody ELSE figuring out the song is political. I figured out all the songs on the list before were political, why don't you source me? My source is the fact I can listen to the music, read the lyrics, and understand the fact that it's political. This would be like taking a bunch of brand names of ketchup off of a list of ketchups because "no one has written an article specifically proclaiming that what is inside the bottle is ketchup, it could be anything." 47.54.135.207 (talk) 23:43, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@47.54.135.207 do I not count as an outside observer? If I write an article for a magazine or something PROCLAIMING these songs to be political punk will you add them back? If so, why can't I just add them now being the outside observer I am? 47.54.135.207 (talk) 23:44, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You would need to be a music critic or otherwise widely be considered an expert on the topic of punk music or political songs, and you would have to publish your opinion. This is not about Wikipedia editors listing what they know to be true. In fact, none of Wikipedia is supposed to be like that. Zero. See WP:NOR and WP:NOT. Binksternet (talk) 00:12, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Binksternet it's not something "I" know to be true. It's self evidently true if you listen to the songs. The content of the songs are political in nature. There's not even a debate to be had over that. 47.54.135.207 (talk) 01:59, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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