Talk:List of people assassinated by the People's Mujahedin of Iran

American Citizens section

The source supporting this section actually says: "SAVAK speculates that assasins were part of MEK terrorist group because of the modus operandi and weapons used." The Washing Post source is also a speculation. This is hardly factual evidence, and needs sources confirming the info it supports or should be removed. Stefka Bulgaria (talk) 00:56, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

Are you really serious or it's just a joke? What about taking a look at this "speculation" from the Associated Press:

In 1973, MEK assailants wearing motorcycle helmets shot dead U.S. Army Lt. Col. Lewis L. Hawkins, the deputy chief of the U.S. military mission to Tehran, as he walked home from work. In 1975, gunmen attacked a car carrying two American airmen, killing them. Hours later, American consular officials received a call claiming the attack for the MEK in revenge for Iran executing prisoners.

“This was work of Movement Mujahedeen of Iran,” the caller said, according to a U.S. diplomatic cable.

In the three years that followed, the MEK killed three American employees of defense contractor Rockwell International and a Texaco executive.

—Pahlevun (talk) 21:08, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

@Pahlevun, my comment above was not a joke. The link you provide cannot be considered RS for determining this type of claim. The same article is posted on a propaganda website. This is a big claim, and we need definite evidence in order to verify this is accurate. Stefka Bulgaria (talk) 01:24, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

Are you serious by this? The Associated Press article is not reliable since iran-interlink has re-published it? FYI, Iran-interlink mentions AP as the original source. --Mhhossein ^talk 13:50, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

The reference reads like a press release, and this is currently being used to support a big claim. The claim needs more substantial RS if it's to be included. Stefka Bulgaria (talk) 22:56, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

Transferring material from MEK#assassination

In order to shorten the assassination part of MEK, all material from that article is moving here. Discussion as to this decision is accessible here.But @Stefka Bulgaria:, I am tring to save missed material on List of people assassinated by the People's Mujahedin of Iran while you are removing them again!Plz respect to WP:RVREASONS.There is no unsorced material and any doubt to find another one, so insted of removing, attach .Saff V. (talk) 10:13, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

@Saff V.: We cannot include unsourced material in a controversial subject such as this one, so please go ahead and save whatever is backed up by RS. Stefka Bulgaria (talk) 10:19, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

Is there any discussion that in the result of it we can say, the killing of Ayat is controversial?Saff V. (talk) 10:25, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

The debate is on whether the MEK was responsible. Considering there has been a prominent disinformation campaign by the IRI against the MEK, we need RS to establish important information such as this. Stefka Bulgaria (talk) 10:36, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

The solution is not to remove them but to mention other narrations, or at least say they're accused of killing. --Mhhossein ^talk 17:43, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

So in regard to this edit we can nominate death of Beheshti by RS that I collected, in other hand have against material issued by Stefka. I am going to save both of them. Is there any opposit idea? Saff V. (talk) 07:39, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

And how about this edit?

We know that Beheshti died in the 28 June 1981 bombing where several groups, including the MEK, were suspected. Since it was Khomeini who made the accusation against the MEK, Beheshti's point needs to go under "Islamic Republic of Iran assassinations allegations against the MEK". Stefka Bulgaria (talk) 08:14, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

@HistoryofIran: It is a shame that you keep reverting the article to a version that is not supported by the sources cited. Stop taking sides without having a clue about why the content is being changed. Pahlevun (talk) 18:37, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

Perhaps instead of pov-pushing and accusing me of 'taking sides' then come up with some proper arguments on why you should be allowed to remove huge chunks of information in not one, not two, but several articles? I'm not the only reverting you. --HistoryofIran (talk) 18:50, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

Here, three users clearly have opposed with the negationist version that describes the facts supported by the reliable Associated Press as "speculation". An organization kills somebody for a cause in the year X, and it thinks it is politically incorrect to take reponsibility for it in the year X+40, the history is not changed then. Pahlevun (talk) 19:28, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Pahlevun You are ignoring all the RS provided that backs up the text you've so unquestioningly removed. Stefka Bulgaria (talk) 10:31, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

Expand to include other attacks?

Should this article be expanded to include other terror attacks by the MEK that are not necessarily assassinations? Or should we have a separate article for the list of attacks by the MEK? Pinging Mhhossein and Stefka Bulgaria.VR _talk 06:33, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

VR: Thanks for the ping. My suggestion is to include both of the incidents here. What do you think? --Mhhossein ^talk 11:35, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

@Vice regent: you are making a lot of changes to the long-standing version of this article. You created a section called "Successful assassinations" adding assassinations that seem, in fact, disputed. Ypatch (talk) 06:20, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

Disagree with move

I don't agree with moving the assassination of Paul Grimm to the section "Islamic Republic of Iran assassinations allegations against the MEK". It was done by a now tbanned user, therefore I will not ping. The source cited is Washington Post article written in 1978, before the Islamic Republic even existed and WaPo cites a "Western intelligence source". However, the US State Department also blames the MEK for the assassination. Therefore I will move this out.VR _talk 00:14, 21 December 2021 (UTC)

VR, the source cites "A Western source in close contact with Iran's security and intelligence agencies", and these sources cite the killing of Americans in this way:

• "A Marxist element of the MEK murdered several of the Shah's U.S. security advisers prior to the Islamic Revolution, and the group helped guard the U.S. Embassy after Islamic students seized it in 1979. Since then, the MEK has conducted terrorist attacks against the interests of the clerical regime in Iran and abroad"source cited

• "How to justify a politically motivated terrorist listing? Resuscitate 20-year-old allegations about the killing of five U.S. defense contractors and military personnel in Tehran during the mid-1970s. My colleagues and I conducted an extensive investigation of the killings and found that in August 1971, a massive and well-planned assault by the shah’s security services succeeded in arresting 69 members of the MEK. Additional arrests and executions followed in May 1972, which practically shattered the organization. Bloody infighting within the organization followed, which resulted in a sharp turn away from the philosophy and strategy of the imprisoned MEK leadership and other members. This breakaway by a few individuals constituted a hijacking of the MEK identity and purpose. Even the 2005 edition of the U.S. State Department Country Reports on Terrorism recognized that a Marxist element of the MEK murdered several of the shah’s U.S. security advisers prior to the Islamic revolution."source cited

So while I agree the assassinations should be mentioned in this article, since different sources attribute this differently, the article should also say this in dispute. I'm going to restore part of the longstanding text (and this as "Disputed" for now). I think we should attribute the killings of Shaffer and Hawkings to the convicted and sentenced individual of these killings, Vahid Afrakhteh. TheDreamBoat (talk) 09:53, 24 December 2021 (UTC)