Talk:List of outdoor ice hockey games

A fact from List of outdoor ice hockey games appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 7 January 2011 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that outdoor hockey games played in football, soccer and baseball stadiums have resulted in numerous attendance records, including a world record of 113,411 at an American college game?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2011/January.

Wikipedia

Definition of the concept

I think the reason these games capture the imagination of fans is because they are hockey games organized in venues conceived for other, outdoor sports. The key here is the conversion of the venue.
Games like the ACHA contest played at a community outdoor rink in Pittsburgh in front of no spectators, or the North Shore Winter Classic in another outdoor rink and a few hundred people in rural Canada, do not fit the description.
If you start accepting those, then HC Egna in Italy, one of the last teams playing at a somewhat high level to have used an outdoor rink as a regular venue, would have to have entire seasons worth of games on this list.
For me, the venue needs to have been converted from another sport (soccer, football, baseball stadium), or to be a public place/landmark that does not usually have hockey (Red Square in Moscow, ancient arena in Croatia...).
I think the page should be renamed into something like "list of hockey games played in non-traditional venues" or something like that. The notion that the IHWC game between Germany and the US in a Bundesliga stadium with almost 78K spectators would not be there, but some Midget contest on a recreational rink would, is a bit ridiculous honestly.
Also, is it necessary to list every secondary game played before or after the top billed contest? Some of these games are even offered for free or at greatly discounted rates to people who bought tix for the big game. Some are probably worth including but not all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:E35:2E96:BA90:55F:3937:B129:E68A (talk) 20:55, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

League

I think it's worth including the league in the table, provide a bit of perspective. Grsz 11 05:14, 3 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Good idea. Done. Reso lute 05:43, 3 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

History

An interesting note: "Crowds of more than 30,000 regularly attended international matches at Dinamo Stadium in Moscow in the ’40s and ’50s, before indoor rinks were built in the Soviet Union starting in the mid-’50s." (from NYT). I wonder if anything notable can be found on this. Jmj713 (talk) 17:34, 3 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Look at this great photo of a USSR-Czechoslovakia game in 1948 (Source). Jmj713 (talk) 16:21, 4 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Veltins-Arena

Since the roof was closed for the opening game of the 2010 IIHF World Championship, should this match be removed from this article? isaacl (talk) 16:32, 4 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, it doesn't belong here. It wasn't an outdoor game.Djob (talk) 17:16, 7 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Game table

I'd like to propose to remove the Notes column (could be incorporated in text form in a different subsection), and split the Location into Venue (stadium, etc.) and Location (city, country). Jmj713 (talk) 19:06, 5 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Due to the discussion about the closed roof etc, I would prefer to keep the notes collumn for information like that. -DJSasso (talk) 15:40, 7 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Granted, but the Notes column makes the table too wide. I'd prefer a neater table. Jmj713 (talk) 17:23, 7 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Having a list of outdoor Ice Hockey games limited by trends is pretty ridiculous for wikipedia. There should be as much information as possible in this list and it should include as many known games prior to the 2001 "Cold War", which is technically non professional and shouldn't be on the list. Thoughts? --Thanatossassin (talk) 07:10, 18 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Without a defined scope, the list would be impossible. It is noted in the article body that numerous early Olympic and World Championship games were held outdoors, for instance. The 2001 game popularized the concept of an outdoor game as an event game, as opposed to early hockey games which were played outdoors simply due to a lack of indoor facilities. The games that came after the 2001 Cold War are definably different than the early days of the sport for that reason. Reso lute 14:22, 18 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

A modern list of outdoor hockey games shouldn't leave off the Las Vegas game in 1991 at Caesar's Palace between the Los Angeles Kings and the New York Rangers. --Taras — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.196.60.102 (talk) 18:04, 17 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The title for the game of January 20, 2013 was the Capital BlueCross AHL Outdoor Classic.

It is incorrect to state in the far-right bar for "Notes" that the game of January 20, 2013 is "In place of the 2013 NHL Winter Classic." It was not. The game was arranged on its own completely separate of the NHL Winter Classic. The NHL did not arrange for that AHL game to somehow be "in place of" and the AHL did not intend for it to be that either. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.205.7.10 (talk) 05:47, 18 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

"Technically"

Regarding the sentence "Although the game was held at Veltins-Arena in Gelsenkirchen, it was not technically an outdoor game", is it actually "technically" not an outdoor game? Does it have anything with technology to do? Hey Mid (contribs) 22:29, 7 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

College games

What is the prerequisite for a college NCAA game to be included in here? I noticed we have the games at Fenway, as well as Big Chill, and several others. However, during the Whalers Hockey fest this February, there will be games between the UConn and Sacred Heart men's teams, the Huskies women vs. Providence, and also I believe an Army-AIC game. But none of these are mentioned on here - it is merely noted on the Hartford Whale game that "several other games" are included in the Fest. So how do we decide which NCAA games to include? Smartyllama (talk) 17:03, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Are all games part of one ticket, or are they separate events? If they are separate (ie, on different days), they should be included separately, as that seems to be the established convention here. I'd say that can be fixed when the event takes place and the results are posted here.Djob (talk) 14:36, 4 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Go ahead and add them. Chances are I simply didn't get around to figuring out how many additional games were being played as part of that event. Reso lute 15:39, 4 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You can get an "event pass" which I believe includes everything except the CT Whale game, UConn Hockey Day (one ticket for doubleheader with men and women), Army-AIC, and a Trinity-Weslyan men's/women's doubleheader. I'm adding those for now with a note that various other games between local teams were played. Smartyllama (talk) 14:15, 13 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, I'll omit them for now. But perhaps we should create a separate article for Whalers Hockey Fest detailing those games, and then add a link to it while listing only the CT Whale game here. Does that sound ok? Smartyllama (talk) 14:15, 13 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

League level

I believe it would be prudent that some restrictions be placed on the level of league to be added to the table. Right now we have very minor leagues populating the list, but perhaps this should be limited to a country's top two leagues (NHL/AHL in North America, counterparts in other countries), top collegiate leagues, and top international contests. Jmj713 (talk) 19:58, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Possibly not a bad idea, though I'd include top junior as well. Reso lute 20:01, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

With the list currently being so short I would leave it without restrictions at this point. I would definitely include leagues lower than the AHL in a number of cases such as junior or ECHL or any of the euro leagues. -DJSasso (talk) 15:04, 25 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Cross-wiki linking

I've noticed that the entries for the 2011 and 2012 Talviklassikko games link to the Finnish Wikipedia article (which doesn't specifically cover the games, either). Should we have it that way, or simply link to (non-created) articles here on the English wiki? Hey Mid (contribs) 15:32, 30 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Personally I would say it would be better, assuming notability of the games, to link to the non-existent English Wikipedia articles to encourage their creation, but here's Wikipedia's help on interlanguage links, which lays out the advantages of both ways. isaacl (talk) 22:43, 30 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Split?

I'm not formally proposing it (yet), but it is obvious that this list is ballooning rapidly in size. Would it be prudent to consider splitting this article, potentially into four? Off the top of my head:

Outdoor ice hockey games, which would serve as a gateway to the topic and would contain much of the prose that exists currently.
- List of outdoor ice hockey games (professional) - NHL, AHL, Europe. I'd include the World Championships here.
- List of outdoor ice hockey games (college)
- List of outdoor ice hockey games (junior)
- (Or perhaps, the above two on one list).

Also, I would suggest removing unofficial games, i.e.: alumni games, and those that are clearly trivial (i.e. the New Jersey pond hockey game with 100 spectators). Thoughts? Reso lute 15:48, 3 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that games below a certain level ought to be omitted; as it stands, since the article's title does not include any qualifiers, it implies that hockey is typically not an outdoor game, which is only semi-accurate.

A possible problem with dividing the list is that a number of the events span multiple levels, and separating the list would obscure this. isaacl (talk) 16:22, 3 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

True, though I think the event articles themselves would cover that purpose. Alternatively, the list could be split by periods of time, but that may be less desirable. Reso lute 16:49, 3 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, an event that spans multiple lists could mention that in the notes column. Reso lute 16:49, 3 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I would do sections on this page itself for each of the types. And then do a See X page(s) for more information in the cases where there are already lists. The NHL for example already has list articles for its outdoor games. Leaving the rest on this page. Quickly scanning the page I don't see any that span levels. Though I am probably missing something. There are events which span levels but the games themselves seem to stick to one level. -DJSasso (talk) 16:53, 3 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I was referring to events that spanned levels. isaacl (talk) 17:16, 3 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Well, removing the NHL games wouldn't be desirable imo since it would leave this list incomplete at its highest level, even with the existence of NHL outdoor games. Dividing the list in-page is an interesting idea though. Especially since the article itself is still only at 64kiB. At the very least, that would improve readability, imo. Reso lute 17:37, 3 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know that it would leave the list complete. It would just be the list version of summary style. -DJSasso (talk) 13:40, 8 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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order

i don't understand all the intricacies of charts, but why does 2019 come AFTER 2024 here?

been trying to sort in proper order for 20 mins now! 2601:19C:527F:A660:43C:F9B3:7CC2:7750 (talk) 04:03, 3 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

frozen fenway

why aren't the current games on the chart?

6 jan WOMEN:

300 harvard v quinnipiac

630 BU v holy cross

7 jan MEN:

230 northeastern v UConn

500 UMass v BC

all on NESN, ESPN+

...from what i understand.

but i DON'T really (are these not annual?), so i'll leave it to someone who does.

but they ought to be in there! 2601:19C:527F:A660:43C:F9B3:7CC2:7750 (talk) 04:03, 3 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

they're on the list now Mushh94 (talk) 04:28, 3 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

yes, thanks. but i think they need some sort of SOURCES -- hope u weren't just taking *my* word for things! 2601:19C:527F:A660:38E2:4D87:F4BF:B088 (talk) 04:00, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]