Talk:List of organ composers

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Pipe organ, a project which is currently considered to be inactive.Pipe organWikipedia:WikiProject Pipe organTemplate:WikiProject Pipe organPipe organ articles

Composers

This article is within the scope of the WikiProject Composers, a group of editors writing and developing biographical articles about composers of all eras and styles. The project discussion page is the place to talk about technical and editorial issues and exchange ideas. New members are welcome!ComposersWikipedia:WikiProject ComposersTemplate:WikiProject ComposersComposers articles

Organization issues

Broadly speaking, composers can be organized by:

alphabetical (last name)
era
culture (country)
birth year

I have chosen the current format (culture > era > alphabetical) because it would help me most easily find a given composer, but there may be better methods of organization, such as era > birth year, or era > culture > birth year, etc. Also, I am uncertain whether to include birthdate and deathdate, like French baroque organists, it might be nice, or it might be cluttered. Just a couple of considerations... -Sesquialtera II 03:31, 31 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think what is here now (country > era > alphabetical) works best, because alphabetical listings are easier to search, and the development of organ music in a particular country during a given era can be covered in articles like French baroque organists - speaking of which, are you going to merge it with this article (or into organ repertoire)? Because if you aren't, I was thinking about expanding it with info from the French Wikipedia article about the French organ school. Jashiin 21:54, 2 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I wanted this page to be a list of the "significant" or "notable" organ composers, ones who every organist should recognize. It is not intended to be comprehensive. So, I'm not planning on merging this article with French baroque organists, although I would like to see all the information in the latter present in a Organ repertoire: French classical article (or however WP's naming conventions would make that look). -Sesquialtera II 15:54, 6 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There can of course be endless discussions about which organ composers are "significant" or "notable". However, I would recommend excluding Heinrich Schütz, who, while being very sgnificant as a composer, is not known for any solo organ works. At the same time I would include Jakob Praetorius (under Germany, Baroque), who is. Other inclusions that I think might be justifiable are: (Netherlands, Renaissance) Pieter Cornet, (Netherlands, Baroque) Abraham van den Kerkhoven, (England, Renaissance) Orlando Gibbons, (England, Baroque) Henry Purcell, (Spain, Baroque) move Juan Cabanilles from Renaissance to Baroque and add Sebastián Aguilera de Heredia, Francisco Correa de Araujo, and Pablo Bruna (under Baroque). If Tomás de Santa María is to be included, whose short didactic pieces are hardly ever heard, then these additional Spanish organ composers are certainly more notable. Any accents in the Spanish names are modern, not contemporary, as is the spelling (i.e. Tomás, not Thomas; Araujo, not Arauxo). One can also argue about the classifications Renaissance, Baroque, Classical and Romantic. These are fuzzy classifications and changes of style took place at slightly different times in different regions, just as certain composers might be rather conservative. Also perceptions of what constitutes these styles may change. For example, I would classify Titelouze and Orlando Gibbons as Renaissance (because of their graver, motet-like style), whereas their Spanish contemporary Aguilera is definitely Baroque with his more florid and rhythmically varied writing. However, Gibbons and other Jacobean composers are increasingly regarded as baroque rather than renaissance composers; so are Sweelinck and Cornet, by the way. Uttenthal, Salamanca83.93.206.234 18:42, 15 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

NPOV issues concerning the definition used on this page

A discussion on Talk:List of major opera composers concerning NPOV issues is currently underway and the definition used in this article has been cited because it is not sourced and is not clear as to exactly the criteria should be for inclusion. Since this discussion is escalating, I'm rewriting this definition using less selective criteria. I've also added John Henderson's excellant book of Organ composers as the main reference and plan on adding Gilles Cantegrel's Organ repertoire book. Between the two of these references, all of the names currently on this list can be sourced and should therefore be considered suitable candidates for this list. Musikfabrik 15:35, 16 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure whether just checking they're in one of two books is enough: Are you including every composer from those books? If not, how are you selecting which ones to include from them? It's also worrying that two composers on this list are major editors of it. Adam Cuerden ^talk 18:04, 17 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's a start. The trouble is that as far as I understand it almost every cathedral or large church organist also composes to some extent, and this is even more true if you go back to the baroque and renaissance periods. In my time at the International Organ Festival they had premieres every year, and most of the competitors were writing pieces of their own. OK, some of the competitors were a bit special (Thomas Trotter for example) but seriously a list of contemporary organ composers is roughly equivalent to a list of decent organists. When you go back into history a bit the really minor ones have been forgotten, a bit of historical perpective works wonders. But more than anything else, where is Noel Rawsthorne? Come on people! ;-) Guy 22:10, 26 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Heh. Probably was there: There was a minor problem with one person advertising and so I deleted the 20th century section until I (or someone else) could reform it from more NPOV sources - let's face it, we were just asking for people to add themselves. Better to cut back the dangerous part than to risk the whole list being deleted. Any suggestions for how we can get a reasonably NPOV shortlist of important composers of the 20th century? Adam Cuerden ^talk 00:58, 27 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This has a list of 20th century composers and pieces at the bottom - it's a start? Adam Cuerden ^talk 01:59, 27 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Messiaen is an absolute must, of course. Which Ives, Charles or Grayston? ;-) Guy 10:10, 27 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure. Probably Charles, given article size: One would think that naming the evidently more obscure one would be more likely to be disambiguated. Adam Cuerden ^talk 12:21, 27 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Making this NPOV

It is somewhat more difficult to make more specific lists NPOV, but it should be possible: All that we need are overview articles on the use of the organ (see what composers they list - can also use this as a guide to organ music, the other troublesome page), and, possibly, examples from orchestration and music theory books? Though, as the number of these is small in any one book, it would probably be best to consider them all as one effective source to compare to others. It's worth a shot, no? Adam Cuerden ^talk 03:01, 24 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

20th Century

I absoolutely agree that a list of20th Century organ composers is going to be vulnerable to vanispamcruftisement. On the other hand, how can we call this list credible if it misses out Messiaen? Or the Alains?

I propose that we debate a few obviously meritorious inclusionns here and then set about finding unambiguous and acceptable definitions for the less obvious.

For my money we should immediately include Alkan, Tournemire and Hindemith. Any other immediate and obvious ones? Guy 16:11, 27 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Is Marie-Clare Alain a composer? Her article doesn't mention it, but it's hard to tell sometimes whether this is due to poor quality of the article or genuine (removed her for the moment - re-add if I am mistaken).

I agree that it'd be best to add in anyone major left off in the meantime, though I must admit I arrived here by following around a problematic editor on another list I'm more familiar with and who was adding the same set of non-notable composers on almost every list-by-instrument on the Wiki. Hence, I am probably not the best judge of who's notable for organ, but will gladly help in research. Adam Cuerden ^talk 17:01, 27 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I double checked in the Grove article, it doesn't say anything about her being a composer. Mak (talk) 04:56, 6 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Removal of Redlinked names

Red-links (names for which pages do not exist) aren't inherently bad...but only when there are a reasonable number. I just deleted several dozen from this article, and since many of them were added years ago, I sincerely doubt they're going to get pages soon. The only reason to have a redlink is to encourage the page to be created, but if that doesn't happen in a reasonable length of time, they should be omitted. Alternatively, if there were a reliable source (connected with an inline citation), then the names could stay--just don't use a link, and add a cite instead. Many of the ones I removed were from prior periods, but for any currently alive, this is especially important, as WP:BLP requires info about living people to be well sourced. Qwyrxian (talk) 14:49, 16 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Fela Sowande

Is listed as USA, but was born in Nigeria and spent all his early professional life in London, not moving to the USA until he was 38. Shouldn't it at least say 'born in Nigeria'? Was he a US citizen? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.12.201.176 (talk) 11:40, 25 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]