Talk:List of multi-level marketing companies/Archives/2018

Semi-protected edit request to remove Surge 365

Please revert Special:Diff/814620052/815167488 edits by User:Xoom, because Surge 365 does not seem notable (unreferenced) for an encyclopedia and fails WP:CSC. No talk page discussion should be required, per WP:BRD. 84.250.17.211 (talk) 18:14, 31 December 2017 (UTC)

Done DRAGON BOOSTER ★ 09:19, 1 January 2018 (UTC)

ADD: Younique & Beauty Counter

Younique & Beauty Counter — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.234.84.45 (talk) 00:34, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

There is Wiki page for Beautycounter, but there is no mention of it being an MLM. I did find one source from PopSugar that calls Beautycounter an MLM. My question is: Is PopSugar a reliable source, especially when considering the info contained in its own article? My inclination is to say yes, and therefore add it as a citation. I'll pose this question on the PopSugar page as well. Kerdooskis (talk) 23:39, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

No question it's an MLM. The company's compensation plan document proves it.[1] So I'd say that PopSugar is OK as a source in this case, at least until a better one comes along. Rhode Island Red (talk) 03:13, 13 January 2018 (UTC)

For what it's worth, here's another source of roughly comparable quality.[2] Rhode Island Red (talk) 03:20, 13 January 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. Kerdooskis (talk) 19:19, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

Beautycounter has been added; however, there is no article currently for Younique. Kerdooskis (talk) 19:19, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

ADD: Trades of Hope

Trades of Hope is an MLM which focuses on selling crafts from women from third world countries with the plan of empowering them. Unfortunately, no one is privy to the information on how much these women are compensated for their products, nor the markup from TOH, or even if those providing the products receive any added benefit from this company.

People selling TOH products are called "compassionate entrepreneurs" and work in recruiting a downline in exact MLM fashion. Please add them to this list of MLM companies. The following is a link to their homepage:

https://www.tradesofhope.com/

Thank you! JN26 (talk) 16:18, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

First of all, ewww! Second, the company doesn't have a WP article so it would not be included in the list of MLMs. Rhode Island Red (talk) 17:01, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 April 2018

Add "Thirty-One Gifts" to the list of MLM companies Hannowagno (talk) 21:24, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

I could not find an article for Thirty-One Gifts. Looking for sources, the company does exist, and does appear to be a MLM, but this would need to be established on Wikipedia before the company is added to this list. Grayfell (talk) 21:28, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

Missing Companies

ADD: Monat - monatglobal.com

ADD: Epicure - epicure.com

ADD: Tupperware - tupperware.com Whatitbe53 (talk) 01:29, 29 April 2018 (UTC)

Thanks, but please see WP:WTAF. These additions would be premature:

• Monat Global - Definitely exists and is an MLM, but doesn't have an article yet.
• Epicure is a redirect to Epicurean (disambiguation), and there doesn't appear to be an article for Epicure (company) or similar. At a glance, the company does appear to be an MLM, but sources seem pretty thin.
• Tupperware is a party plan company, not a MLM. Is this a meaningful distinction? Perhaps or perhaps not, but it would have to be established at that article, with reliable sources, before being added here.

Grayfell (talk) 02:21, 29 April 2018 (UTC)

• Just to note on missing pages for MLM companies, this is another one - I've drafted a page for SeneGence (LipSense) which I have resubmitted for re-review, in case anyone else watching this talkpage is doing something similar. Draft:SeneGence International, Inc. SunnyBoi (talk) 04:13, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

I've taken the liberty of fixing the link. Grayfell (talk) 22:11, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

Pyramid vs MLM

My correction of Pyramid marketing vs Multilevel Marketing was reversed by Greyfell who is of the belief my statement was in error, specifically "Wikipedia goes by reliable sources, not individual editor experience/opinion." According to the Better Business Bureau, there is a specific difference between the two. The https://www.bbb.org/phoenix/news-events/consumer-tips/2015/03/opportunity-or-scam-multi-level-marketing-vs.-pyramid-schemes/ states "MLM is a system of retailing in which consumer products are sold by independent salespeople (distributors). Earnings in MLM are based on effort and ability to sell consumer products supplied to the distributor by the company. A MLM company will also encourage distributors to build their own sales force by recruiting, motivating, supplying and training others to sell products, earning a percentage of the sales from the sales force." whereas Pyramid Schemes "Pyramid schemes concentrate mainly on making quick profits earned by selling the right to recruit others. Pyramid schemes focus more on recruiting other participants than selling the product or service, making little to no mention about the market for the item. Pyramid scheme participants try to recoup their investment in products by recruiting potential investors." The FTC also states in an https://www.ftc.gov/public-statements/1998/05/pyramid-schemes on the subject "Some people confuse pyramid and Ponzi schemes with legitimate multilevel marketing. Multilevel marketing programs are known as MLM's,(4) and unlike pyramid or Ponzi schemes, MLM's have a real product to sell. More importantly, MLM's actually sell their product to members of the general public, without requiring these consumers to pay anything extra or to join the MLM system. MLM's may pay commissions to a long string of distributors, but these commission are paid for real retail sales, not for new recruits." I trust that these sources are sufficient proof for you that exceeds the category of "individual editor experience/opinion. Darkwingdave (talk) 04:00, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

This is about this edit from months ago? Wow, okay, I appreciate your tenacity.

"Pyramid selling" isn't the same term as "pyramid scheme", so please avoid WP:OR. The lede only mentions "pyramid selling" as an alternate term for clarity.

As for the difference, please also be mindful of WP:SYNTH. Yes, they are different according to many sources, but just as many sources connect the two in some way. The confusion is wide-spread, and this confusion is part of the definitions. Experts specifically discuss the overlap between them, and the blurred lines differentiating them. More importantly, this article is not the place to go into this. There is already an explanation of this problem at Multi-level marketing and Pyramid scheme#Connection to multi-level marketing. Exactly what is and is not an MLM, and where the line between MLM and pyramid scheme lies is contested by experts, and those articles include a helpful sample of sources on this issue.

Further, Wikipedia is international, and this article is about MLMs many countries, so the comparatively narrow definition currently used by the FTC is not the only definition we should use. Several other countries do not treat the legal distinction in this way. Again, this is a poor place to go into detail, but since this article includes several companies which were described by both reliable sources, and by their own PR, as "multi-level marketing" before they were shut down as pyramid schemes, a single mention of a common alternate phrase seems entirely appropriate. Grayfell (talk) 04:42, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

MLM companies

MARY KAY IS NOT A MLM COMPANY. THEY ARE A DUAL MARKETING COMPANY! PLEASE CORRECT!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.8.12.241 (talk) 00:16, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

Please avoid WP:SHOUTING. Wikipedia goes by reliable sources, and reliable sources describe Mary Kay as MLM. Grayfell (talk) 02:29, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

Perfectly Posh

Perfectly Posh is a big one missing from this list. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ThaCleaner (talk • contribs) 21:24, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

It is definitely a MLM. I don't see any article for Perfectly Posh yet, though. In order for an article to be written, there need to be substantial, third-party sources. This Atlantic article discusses the company, and there are a few more, but I'm not sure if there are enough to meet WP:CORP. Regardless, adding it to this list would be premature unless there are a lot of sources, or there is some specific, sourced reason this company is noteworthy. Grayfell (talk) 21:53, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

Please add Scentsy

Scentsy was established in 2004 and is now a multi-billion dollar company that got that way based on several factors, one of which is the use of non-salaried individuals (consultants) who seek compensation by building tiers (downlines) of individuals, who are then encouraged to build their own tiers. The compensation plan for consultants is pure MLM https://swsguide.com/the-scentsy-consultant-compensation-plan/ and Scentsy is a great example of a current MLM.

Endora the good witch (talk) 15:31, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

Scentsy currently does not have its own Wikipedia article, which is required for inclusion on this list. However, based on the sources available, I do agree that Scentsy is an MLM and is noteworthy enough for its own page. That's the first, biggest step. Kerdooskis (talk) 19:10, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

Plexus Worldwide

Plexus Worldwide is a big multi-level marketing company that should be added to the list. It was started in April of 2008 and is based in Scottsdale, Arizona.

More information is needed on them, but I thought that this should be on the list. — Preceding unsigned comment added by J3hxyt (talk • contribs) 20:49, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

Plexus currently does not have its own Wikipedia article, which is required for inclusion on this list. It does appear to be an MLM, though, based on a quick Google search. Kerdooskis (talk) 19:09, 29 November 2018 (UTC)