Talk:List of film director and actor collaborations

This article was nominated for deletion on 8 September 2019. The result of the discussion was keep.

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List of Indian film director and actor collaborations was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 19 January 2017 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into List of film director and actor collaborations. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.

Section sizes

Section size for List of film director and actor collaborations (3 sections)
Section name	Byte count	Section total
(Top)	268	268
List of collaborations	32,495	32,495
References	2,549	2,549
Total	35,312	35,312

Very long, no order...

This list, while interesting, is very long and in no particular order. Some kind of organization would be good, and a good start is alphabetizing the list by Director name. Doc502 20:57, 16 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Criteria?

Interesting list, but what's the criteria for inclusion? When is a film director and actor collaboration regarded as "noted"? And who decides which collaborations are noted enough to be added to the list? Masaruemoto 20:05, 15 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There are some weird choises, like Coppola & Pacino, since they only worked on Godfather trilogy, in which Pacino played the same role three times. Is that really a collaboration worth mentioning? Why not Harrison Ford/Carrie Fisher/Mark Hamill with George Lucas? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.175.215.241 (talk) 15:07, 4 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, a trilogy, or a series of movies where the same actor plays the same role, seems less notable, I'd say. Maybe there should be some criteria put up. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 16:09, 9 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Minimum three different feature movies, two different characters, I'd suggest. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 01:07, 31 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Although this is an old discussion, it's probably worth bringing up again. A lot of this clutter could be removed by making an appearance in two separate "franchises" part of the criteria for inclusion. We really don't need to see how David Yates collaborated with every Harry Potter cast member, only on the last four films. --ProfessorKilroy (talk) 05:35, 1 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Samuel Ntsane

Actor, Writer and a Film Producer at IYP FILMS Sam.ntsane (talk) 11:38, 24 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Merger from List of Indian film director and actor collaborations

Per the conclusion of Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Indian film director and actor collaborations, the subject list has been merged into List of film director and actor collaborations. As @Clarityfiend: suggested in the AfD, I have gone ahead and removed Indian collaborations which were lesser than 5. 5 is just an arbitrary number I chose now. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 05:07, 2 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Inclusion criteria

It's clear the inclusion criteria is far too low. Ideally we would cite a source describing each collaboration has notable, but for now I think we can limit this to at least four distinct films with the same actor and director. Onetwothreeip (talk) 23:10, 27 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Kpwarden: Let's keep this article to include a minimum of four films that an actor and director have collaborated with. Otherwise we're just going to be including too much. Onetwothreeip (talk) 00:39, 4 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Link to old version

This is a link to the old version that is entirely unsourced content. This does not mean that the content is invalid, but due to the indiscriminate nature, there needs to be noteworthiness independently established, not just editors eyeballing people's filmographies. This link can be used to look up references and to restore mention to the article with a citation. Erik (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)} 13:57, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Lookup tool

Editors can use IMDb's Collaborations Search to list films if the existing source is not comprehensive on that front. You can use the "Two People in the Same Title" search box. After a search, delete the part of the URL after "title_type=feature" and press Enter to get the tighter filter. You can then sort by "Year". I recommend checking each film's cast quickly for the actor's presence since sometimes the actor can have another role, like producer. (Added: Also, the director may not be the director in a particular collaboration, but this can be eyeballed quickly in the listing.) Pinging Clarityfiend since they have made significant improvements and may like to know about this. Erik (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)} 18:34, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Indian director and actor collaborations

i think they should go under same rules like hollywood directors. why does the colaborations need to me minimum 5 movies when like james cameron and arnold only make like 4 movies and still on the list . same goes with george lukas and harrison ford. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Abhinav254 (talk • contribs) 07:10, 14 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Abhinav254, I do not believe there is a local consensus for having five films minimum. I think the criteria we should establish is if the collaboration has been worth noting by reliable sources. I don't know if we want to have a particular number of reliable sources. Maybe if a source is list-based and very authoritative, that should be good enough, where if there is only a source that talks about a collaboration in passing, we should have multiple sources for that. E.g., one source saying it is the director and actor's "fifth collaboration" while covering their particular film should not be enough. I'm happy to discuss inclusion criteria with other editors once the AfD is closed. For what it is worth, I searched for Indian director and actor collaborations and while I found good sources, I did not see any of them mentioning the collaboration you sought to add. Erik (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)} 16:03, 14 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Consensus for inclusion criteria

Now that the AfD has closed as keep, we should establish a local consensus for inclusion criteria for this list, particularly since it has existed for so many years in an unsourced state. We have a few options and can combine them:

Minimum number of collaborations for each director-actor pair (e.g., five films minimum)
One reliable source that shows that such a collaboration has been worthy of note
Multiple reliable sources that show that a collaboration has been worthy of note (e.g., at least three sources)
One list-based reliable source in which a collaboration is included

I had based the overhaul on list-based reliable sources (#4) and prefer that at minimum. I think if a collaboration has not been part of a list, we should require multiple reliable sources (maybe three) (#3). I feel like otherwise, the bar is too low to find one source (#2) that states that an actor and a director have collaborated. As for #1, I feel like that may be too arbitrary and may exclude otherwise-noteworthy collaborations. Whatever we can agree on, I can add a template to the top of the talk page outlining the inclusion criteria to point to. What do other editors think? Pinging those involved with the AfD discussion and this article. Onetwothreeip, Clarityfiend, Dream Focus, PC78, Betty Logan, Andrew Davidson, *Treker, Barkeep49, Rorshacma, Lugnuts, Jack Cox, Ulric1313, ShelfSkewed. Erik (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)} 01:05, 16 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

You only need one reference for each thing. And if the reliable source felt it notable enough to mention, that's it, don't need to have five film minimum. Dream Focus 01:24, 16 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

If you go to for a base number you need to exclude sequels for the count. For example, I would say that Harrison Ford and Spielberg only had one true collaboration in Indiana Jones, not four. My preference would be a combination of #2 and #4 i.e. two sources, with one looking at the collaboration in detail (which establishes the relationship is noteworthy within the context of the collaboration) and a list that establishes the collaboration is noteworthy within the context of collaborations. I think the first criterion is important to distinguish a collaboration from regular appearances. For example, Scorsese collaborated with De Niro and DiCaprio, but did he have a true collaboration with Joe Pesci, despite making three films with him? It is possible their relationship could make a list of collaborations but I'm not convinced it goes beyond a working relationship. Betty Logan (talk) 01:29, 16 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict) I'll note that an appearance on a list of notable collaborations is the weakest of evidence - we don't in normal cases allow for listicle evidence for purposes of notability. I don't, however, in the context of a criteria for inclusion on a list of ours, however, have a problem with it. I would suggest: at least 3 films worked together and either an appearance on a list of notable collaborations by a reliable source (e.g. [1]) or an independent article on the colloborations by a reliable source (e.g. [2]). But I don't have strong feelings on this topic and would happily go along with whatever is decided (as I don't expect to edit here all that often). Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 01:31, 16 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Add Ernst Lubitsch

q.v.: Ernst Lubitsch filmography ....0mtwb9gd5wx (talk) 00:39, 13 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Kubrick and Sellers

Should be added as a special case - only two films but some 10+ roles in them. 86.63.168.150 (talk) 21:31, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Rollback

I boldly rolled back this list to a version shortly after the closure of AFD that closed in favor of a sourced list. Unfortunately, unsourced content creep was enormous -- it looks like 561 MB (!) was added over time, primarily unsourced, as seen here. Maybe it's too much to roll back, but too much was added without sourcing. Most of what was added during the AFD process came from lists that recognized these collaborations. There are definitely more collaborations than captured in these lists, but by nature of not being listed, these are likely to be less discriminate. In other words, the biggest collaborations were already documented. Starting this discussion here for other editors to agree or disagree with this course of action. Erik (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)} 17:08, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]