Talk:List of fictional lesbian characters/Archive 1

Archive 1

How to deal with the deluge of information

As you can see, I created this page. I haven't added anything in terms of books, live-action TV, and film, but that's next. There are likely other categories I could add, like "Podcast" too. So, @GlitchyM., @CrypticalFiery, @DarioBee, @Onetwothreeip, @Pyxis Solitary, @Cabutchikas, @Loyalmoonie, and others, feel free to add stuff in those categories, and add sources in the video game category, or delete stuff there. There's so much on this page (and will be more), I'm not sure how to divide it, so suggestions are appreciated. I was thinking of this page as an overflow, so that one-off characters and cameos could be removed from the Lists of animated series with LGBT characters pages, per the discussion I had with @PanagiotisZois recently, and kept here instead. That was my thought about it. I would create a page just for one-off characters, but well, the history of pages for one-off characters is not a good one, as some attempted to create one for some series and it was deleted, so I thought creating this page would be a safer bet, as it won't ever be targeted for deletion.--Historyday01 (talk) 16:18, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for notifying me. The article is already too large and should be split. The descriptions are unnecessarily long as well and they should be shortened first, but it's likely the article would still be too large if entries are continuing to be added. It's possible there may be too many entries as well, such as those with an ambiguous or undefined sexuality. I would certainly advise against thinking that any article couldn't be targeted for deletion. Onetwothreeip (talk) 21:37, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

Fair point there, @Onetwothreeip about the deletion. Yeah, I was thinking it was too large too, which is why I asked, and am only tentatively adding information in other categories right now. In any case, where should I split it? Have any good ideas? In the meantime, I'll start cutting down some of the longer descriptions.--Historyday01 (talk) 22:00, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

It looks like there should be a separate article for Japanese animation characters. Onetwothreeip (talk) 22:36, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

@Onetwothreeip, Taking into account the section sizes, I agree, but I think it should be for all animated characters, something like "List of fictional animated lesbian characters". Then, we can deal with getting the sources for the other sections. I think this page could be a model for other pages like "List of fictional gay characters". Anyway, in terms of adding to the other sections, there may some content we could copy from pages like List of animated films with LGBT characters, List of dramatic television series with LGBT characters: 2020s, List of LGBT characters in television and radio, List of dramatic television series with LGBT characters: 2010s, List of films with LGBT characters, List of webcomics with LGBT characters, List of made-for-television films with LGBT characters, and Lists of LGBT figures in fiction and myth for anything else... I'm not saying we need to use everything from all of those pages, but they could be a source of content.Historyday01 (talk) 22:44, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

@Onetwothreeip, perhaps one could be "List of fictional lesbian characters in anime" and "List of lesbian characters in animation" (not including anime characters, getting rid of the redirect), that way you wouldn't need to say "Japanese" and "non-Japanese." Historyday01 (talk) 22:49, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

Update, @Onetwothreeip. Created the List of lesbian characters in anime page. Not sure about the need for the List of lesbian characters in animation page, but I'd like to hear your thoughts about it before I go and create it. Historyday01 (talk) 02:39, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for the invitation. The main priority for splitting appears to be the Japanese animation characters, unless many of these entries are spurious or speculative. I don't know how large any article about lesbian characters in animation generally would be. Onetwothreeip (talk) 07:53, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

"Not sure about the need for the List of lesbian characters in animation page." Is "anime" the same as "animation"? From my understanding, anime is specifically related to Japanese creations, while animation encompasses all moving images -- drawings, puppets, clay, graphics; which would include Animal Logic, Aardman Animations, Blue Sky, Cartoon Network, Cartoon Saloon, Disney, DreamWorks, Folimage, Fuzzy Door, Illumination Mac Guff, L'Atelier, Method, Nickelodeon, Pixar, Sony Imageworks, South Park, Warner Bros, etc., studios. Pyxis Solitary (yak). L not Q. 08:17, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

Good question @Pyxis Solitary. I was only saying that there wasn't a need for a List of lesbian characters in animation page because of its length, as compared to the one for anime characters, but I'd be willing to create it, if you think its a good idea.Historyday01 (talk) 12:39, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

Update. I understand what you mean @Pyxis Solitary about animation being broader. But, if I'm not going to use the word "animation" in the title, as that could encompass anime, what should I use designate non-Japanese animations? Maybe I could something like List of lesbian characters in cartoons? Just a thought. Historyday01 (talk) 12:48, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

How about: List of lesbian characters in Japanese animation and List of lesbian characters in animation, because anime productions are a very specific industry. Animation is not all "cartoons". There are also clay animations, puppet animations, and live-action animations. Pyxis Solitary (yak). L not Q. 21:23, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

@Pyxis Solitary, that could work. In the meantime, I've been trying to add in some entries to the other categories on the page. If you like webcomics, I'd recommend Nimona and Lumberjanes. I just started Lumberjanes, but Nimona is really great (the protagonist, Nimona, is a butch lesbian, there is an implied gay relationship/gay feelings between Blackheart and Goldenloin) between and by Noelle Stevenson who was/is the showrunner for She-Ra, so it was her first big project which put her on the map. Historyday01 (talk) 02:00, 17 June 2020 (UTC). Update: Since the page for Japanese animation literally redirects to the anime page, I think I'll leave that one with the title List of lesbian characters in anime, and update the other one for other animations, while perhaps adding that it does not include anime-influenced animation or something like that, to make it clear its only Japanese animations. Historyday01 (talk) 02:05, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

Thanks to the suggestions of @Pyxis Solitary and @Onetwothreeip, I am happy to report that the page is below the criteria to split it off, but that is only due to the dearth of sources in the book characters, film characters, and live-action television characters sections, which I'm planning to add to next. Historyday01 (talk) 02:25, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

According to the conversion factor (1 kilobyte equals 1000 bytes), and doing calculations here, the page is currently 168,261 bytes, this page is currently 168.261 kB, which falls under the guidelines of dividing an article, as noted in the chart reprinted from the Wikipedia:Splitting page:

Rule of thumb

Readable prose size (kB/characters)	What to do
> 100kB / 100,000 chars	Almost certainly should be divided
>  60kB / 60,000 chars	Probably should be divided (although the scope of a topic can sometimes justify the added reading time)
>  50kB / 50,000 chars	May need to be divided (likelihood goes up with size)
<  40kB / 40,000 chars	Length alone does not justify division
<   1kB / 1,000 chars	If an article or list has remained this size for over a couple of months, consider combining it with a related page. Alternatively, why not fix it by adding more info? See Wikipedia:Stub.

I'll likely spin off the content about live-action television series and see where that leaves the page, then reassess from there. Historyday01 (talk) 14:31, 19 June 2020 (UTC)