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Talk:List of famous German Americans/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Why are German Jews listed separately? This would seem to imply that they are not "real" Germans, or that the two identities are inherently at odds.

I don't necessarily agree with it, but most American Jews just consider themselves "Jewish Americans", not "German-Americans". However, what I definitely don't agree with is the listing of people with (non-Jewish) German ancestry separately if they are also part Jewish. I.e. Liev Schreiber - he's non-Jewish Geman on his father's side, but is listed under the Jewish section because his mother is Jewish - but her ancestors are from the Ukraine, not Germany, so his Jewish heritage has nothing to do with his German heritage. He should definitely be listed under the regular section, and so should all other similar cases. JackO'Lantern 23:01, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
What about Fritz Lang, I checked German and English Wikipedia both saying he was Roman Catholic ...

People with Distant German ancestry

Do we really need this section? They can't really be called "German-Americans" and it is usually irrelevant if someone had a German great-great-grandparent. I say we just keep the listings down to having a German or German-American grandparent. Comments? MadJack 03:24, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Since no one's objected, I'll generally remove this section. Really, people who are "German-Americans" are people with at least a parent who is fully German by ancestry, or who somehow otherwise express a connection to their German heritage if more distant. JackO'Lantern 05:09, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
It depends on what a source says...Think of Paris Hilton. Michael 07:14, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
Oh, we know, you're responding to really outdated posts Mad Jack 07:25, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
I am aware. Nonetheless, I know you're still around regularly. Michael 22:34, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
By the way, the old comment did say "or who somehow otherwise express a connection to their German heritage if more distant", which means your comment was completely pointless, not partially. :) :) :) Mad Jack 01:29, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Ethnicity lists discussion

Please see discussion at Wikipedia:Village pump (policy) for current discussion of a potential policy to apply to all ethnicity lists on Wikipedia, including this one. JackO'Lantern 20:23, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Milton Hershey

The source of the information for the Hershey surname origin is the Hershey Lodge and Convention Center, where my uncle is employed as a chauffeur and the Hersche coat-of-arms is posted on the wall with the story. This may be verified toll-free at 1-866-PA-MEETS (1-866-726-3387.)---Heff01

Sources

I have sourced the list in accordance with Wikipedia's No Original Research and Verifiability policies. Basically, anyone described by a reliable source as "German" or "German-American" (i.e. as opposed to "of German descent", "German mother", etc.) is on the list. Here are the people I couldn't find anything for. If you have a reliable source that fits that please restore the names:

Mad Jack O'Lantern 18:37, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Tagging

Thanks, Mad Jack O'Lantern. I have tagged this article for lack of sourcing. Someone who really likes genealogy could really contribute here. Carlossuarez46 16:09, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Politicians & Historical Figures...

I have a little bit of a problem with this due to the fact that many notable historical figures are political figures... Michael 04:27, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

All politicians should probably be in the politicians section. And then Historical would be for the misc. people Mad Jack 04:53, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Singers in "Musicians"?

Are we listing singers in the "Musicians" section? Nick Lachey needs to be filed away somewhere... Michael 06:00, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Never mind. I already did. Michael 01:17, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

This list

Since I see you are sourcing it now, please add a source that actually says the person is "German" or "German-American". Because, following Caulfield, I am definitely aware of several people on there who are described as having a father, etc. of Germnan ancestry, etc. and are not actually described as German-Americans or "German" (since they are "American). Having a father, etc. of German ancestry does not make their child an automatic German-American (being described in a reliable source as a German-American does :) ) Mad Jack 01:04, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

You said: "German-Americans" are people with at least a parent who is fully German by ancestry, or who somehow otherwise express a connection to their German heritage if more distant." In other words, if one of their parents is fully of one ancestry, then we can include them. That's the policy I've seen practiced throughout Wikipedia. Michael 01:14, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
Where is that policy? There is, unfortunately, no written-down policy anywhere on Wikipedia about ethnicity lists. As of late, the lists/etc. have been strictly done according to the Wikipedia:No original research and Wikipedia:Verifiability policies, i.e. Wikipedia calls someone an "X-American" if the source called them "X-American". I.e. we report what reliable sources said and not make judgments of our own. Although the whole "half" thing makes sense to me, it is not policy and if that person isn't actually described as a German-American, or even as "half German", then it's a violation because it's my/your/etc. opinion. I'd imagine there are people out there in the mid-west of the US who are 100% English, but whose last ancestor left England in the 17th century. No one, including themselves, considers themselves an "English American". They are quite obviously just "American" by any definition. We shouldn't foister labels on people that haven't been foistered on them by anyone else. If someone's father is described as being of Germnan ancestry, great, but how did that person suddenly turn into a German-American? Maybe this whole subject needs to be taken into wider discussion and some sort of strict standards decided upon, but until then, the same policies apply on the lists that do elsewhere - "X-American" only if someone else has already called that person that. If they called them "half X", it seems borderline - but take note that saying someone's father is "X" is not the same as actually calling them "half "X". Mad Jack 01:19, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
From what I have seen, we have often used whether someone had at least one parent who is entirely of one heritage to define such. Were we to erase all of these, we'd be left with practically nobody on our lists. It seems to be an accepted, yet unstated (in the general rules), policy of Wikipedia that if someone's parent is of full blood, then we can count them as an "x-American". From what I have seen, the moderators also do this and advocate this. Michael 01:28, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
There is no such policy, or it would be written somewhere. What the policy does state is that we report what reliable sources have said. If a reliable source reported that someone is a German-American, we can and should too. If not, not. Oh, and that's not true on "practically nobody" listed. See List of Irish American actors, List of Jewish American actors and List of Catholic American entertainers. Plenty of people who have actually been described as Jewish, Irish-American and Catholic listed there (or at worst, described as "half Jewish" or "Half Irish" - but not that their father was Jewish or Irish). Wikipedia can't make up X-Americans based on info that does not label a person as exactly that. If there's a lack of whichever X-American group, then Wikipedia needs to reflect that, not draw on straws to get as many people listed. Mad Jack 04:52, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
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