Talk:List of enslaved people of Mount Vernon

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Would adding a table improve this list?

@CaroleHenson: Thank you, thank you, thank you for starting this article. I think it has great potential.
Would it be helpful to add a table below the individual bios? I was thinking something like this:

Name/Dates	Employment	Parentage	Spouse/Children	Enslaved status	Notes

William Costin (c.1780 - May 31, 1842)		Mother: Ann Dandridge-Costin (half-sister of Martha Washington) Father: unknown	Wife: Philadelphia "Delphy" (half sister of Oney Judge) Children: 2 sons 4 daughters, including Louisa Parke Costin 3 adopted daughters	Dower slave? (debated by scholars)

Oney Judge Ona Judge Staines (c.1773 – 1848)	personal servant to Martha Washington	Mother: Betty Father: Andrew Judge (white indentured servant) Half-siblings: Austin (father unknown) Tom Davis Betty Davis Philadelphia "Delphy" (father unknown)	Husband: Jack Staines (free-Black man from Greenland, NH) Children: Eliza Staines Will Staines Nancy Staines	Dower slave Fugitive slave (until death)	Servant in presidential households in New York & Philadelphia Escaped to New Hampshire from Philadelphia, May 1796, after learning that she was to become a wedding gift to Martha Washington's granddaughter, Elizabeth Custis & Thomas Law Married, widowed & died in Greenland, New Hampshire Interviewed by abolitionist newspapers, 1840s

Will Lee "Billy" Lee (c.1750 – 1810)	personal servant to George Washington		Wife: Margaret Thomas (free-Black woman from Philadelphia, PA) Children: none	Washington slave Purchased 1768 Only person immediately freed by George Washington's will

Hercules Posey

Please let me know what you think.
Regards, == BoringHistoryGuy (talk) 02:21, 23 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, BoringHistoryGuy, I often like tables, but in my opinion in this case some of the cells are so deep that it becomes harder to read. Thanks for the thanks!–CaroleHenson (talk) 17:54, 23 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps, though, some of the formatting could used, like "Mother:" (no bold per WP:BOLDFACE).–CaroleHenson (talk) 17:57, 23 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@CaroleHenson: My concern is that the article is overwhelmed by images and long captions. An advantage of a table is brief, precise info in an organized form. == BoringHistoryGuy (talk) 18:23, 23 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

BoringHistoryGuy, Ahhhhh! That's helpful info. How about if I take a stab at correcting that and see what you think?–CaroleHenson (talk) 19:17, 23 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

BoringHistoryGuy, I did a bit of moving around to create a defined format for images (right margin), reducing the size of the images (as would happen to a greater extent in a table), shortened a caption, and removing two images that are not necessary. What do you think?–CaroleHenson (talk) 19:30, 23 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@CaroleHenson: Much better. == BoringHistoryGuy (talk) 20:09, 23 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Great, thanks for the input and feedback!–CaroleHenson (talk) 22:08, 23 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

References

I was short-sighted by not adding references in the List of enslaved people. Someone may come along and add content here that may not be in the main article.

I will work on that in the next couple of days.–CaroleHenson (talk) 19:35, 23 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The Washington Family

WHO the enslaved servant is in the Washington Family portrait remains a mystery. The balding hairline might suggest Will Lee, although his two falls incapacitated him, and it would have been difficult for him to serve family meals after 1789. There's some reference (Martha Washington Papers?) to Austin outgrowing his postilion uniform, and the servant pictured is not plump. Despite the hairline, it could be Christopher Sheels. I wish we knew.
== BoringHistoryGuy (talk) 20:37, 23 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

BoringHistoryGuy The reference comes from The Washington Family#Interpretations. Do you think that 1) we should remove the image because it's not clear, 2) copy over the references, or 3) something else?–CaroleHenson (talk) 22:13, 23 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@CaroleHenson: No, it's fine as is. My guess is that it's Will Lee, being given the honor of inclusion in the family portrait, although there's no evidence supporting that. Best, == BoringHistoryGuy (talk) 23:30, 23 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, cool. I am going to go ahead and copy over one of the references for context. It may not be needed, but it can't hurt. Thanks for your input!–CaroleHenson (talk) 23:32, 23 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Definition of "enslaved"

Based upon the edit summary of this change "editor didn't grasp full meaning of 'enslaved'", it seems it's good to clarify the meaning.

I think "enslaved" applies to anyone that owned a slave, because they are keeping them enslaved. Others believe that "enslaved" only applies to the time when a person is made a slave.

I think that the edit summary comment was just a snarky comment for one alternate use of "enslaved" (which is by far my preference), but it seems good to iron it out.–CaroleHenson (talk) 18:31, 16 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

West Ford

Mr. Ford arrived at Mount Vernon in 1802. He was at that time held in bondage by Bushrod Washington. Bushrod freed Mr. Ford in 1805. Mr. Ford then worked at Mount Vernon for the next 55 years as a free man, and died there a free man in 1863. So it doesn’t seem right for this Wikipedia article to call him an enslaved person of Mount Vernon. Technically, he was, but only for less than 5% of his tenure at Mount Vernon. Anythingyouwant (talk) 20:16, 1 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I’ve edited this article accordingly. Anythingyouwant (talk) 20:23, 1 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, I took out the 95% calculation because statistics are confounding all that is in needed in my opinion is the year he was freed and that he continued as a freedman. --StellarNerd (talk) 20:27, 1 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, leaving out the percentage is fine, but I added his start and end dates as a Mount Vernon caretaker. Anythingyouwant (talk) 21:49, 1 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]