Talk:List of dramatic television series with LGBT characters: 2020s

Page statistics

To view the list's history of Edits and User statistics:
Wikipedia Page History Statistics
@  http://vs.aka-online.de/cgi-bin/wppagehiststat.pl
project:  en.wikipedia
page:  List of dramatic television series with LGBT characters: 2020s
click [SEARCH]
Pyxis Solitary (yak). L not Q. 13:29, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

Series and characters deleted from list

The following rows were deleted from the table due to missing reliable source(s) for any characters in the series.

Series and characters

Re foreign-language series: series that do not have English-language sources can use non-English sources for use as RS. If you find sources for any one of these series you can re-add it to the table together with the sources. Please remove any salvaged series from this list. Guilherme || Augusto Trainotti || Guilherme is ____. citation needed|date=March 2021 (series: Kissing Game (TV series), broadcast on Netflix, Brazilian show, no source found to verify characters orientation) Eric || Saulo Arcoverde || Eric and Macelo are gay. (series: Reality Z, broadcast on Netflix, Brazilian show, no sources found for Eric, Marcelo, Lucas to verify characters orientation) Marcelo || Erom Cordeiro (also wanted to mention there were Portuguese sources that mention this actor, but sources were behind paywall, and Google cache was no help either.) Lucas || Jesus Luz || Lucas is gay (not positive if Luz is the right person (probably/likely he is), as his WP article says he is a Brazilian model and DJ, no filmography, but his IMDb profile does match birthdays) Jupiter's Legacy|| Netflix || Gabriella / Neutrino || Humberly Gonzalez || Gabriella and Jacinda are lovers. Jacinda / Shockwave || Jess Salgueiro References

If more series lacking RS are removed from the table they can be added to this list. (Don't forget to add your signature before you publish.) Pyxis Solitary (yak). L not Q. 10:22, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

That's a good way to handle unsourced material, I suppose. Historyday01 (talk) 12:47, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

• All of these series were re-added with sources supporting the show and characters. YYY was moved to list of comedy series because that is how (what few sources there were) described it. See my signature for date and time. I changed the heading, in case any new series get added, that may be from 2021. Isaidnoway (talk) 19:40, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

Well, that makes the list a bit silly. Thanks for doing that, Isaidnoway. --Historyday01 (talk) 20:11, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

If by "makes the list a bit silly" you mean this topic ... you're dead wrong. I'm counting on you to delete series in the future just as you did with those that appeared in this deleted series collection. However, instead of just sending them off to the trash bin again and allowing the passage of time to let the deletions slip unnoticed, you can add them to this topic for salvaging. The less leeway there is for ruination, the better. Pyxis Solitary (yak). L not Q. 09:20, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

I meant the list is silly because they were re-added by Isaidnoway. I did not say the topic was silly. Just to be clear about what I meant here. Even so, I'd still use this to add entries in the future rather than straight-up removing them. Historyday01 (talk) 15:31, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

Thanks. Pyxis Solitary (yak). L not Q. 09:20, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

I changed the section heading again to include characters, hope that is OK, if not maybe a separate section. The characters I just added, couldn't find sources to verify the characters orientation, but the shows were broadcast on Netflix, so this may be a good case for cite episode, for anyone who has Netflix (I don't) and wanted to volunteer to watch the shows to verify these characters. Isaidnoway (talk) 15:24, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

It's ok. Readers and editors will get what it's for.

As for someone volunteering to watch a series: if one was added to the list it was because someone watched it (or at least a few episodes). Oftentimes the problem with finding sources is due to a series being so new that entertainment media hasn't yet published anything about LGBT characters that can be used. There's also the proliferation of foreign-language series with LGBT characters. For instance, Thai TV has many BL ("Boy Love") and GL ("Girl Love") series and anything you're able to find for them is going to be in Thai language; Brazil (of all places) has seen an increase in LGBT-theme television series (even with Bolsonaro in power) and RS for them is going to be in Portuguese; then there are Icelandic series, Spanish series, Norwegian series, Italian series, etc., with LGBT characters.

My opinion since the day I began editing LGBT-related television lists has been to wait a while for RS to be found, and appreciate that someone took the time to add a series to these lists that I did not/could not/will not watch, and didn't know until it was added to the list that it included a lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, or XYZ character. Pyxis Solitary (yak). L not Q. 12:18, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

if one was added to the list it was because someone watched it, so while it's still fresh on their minds, those editors should be making a good faith attempt at finding a source, and if one can't be found, then at the very least provide as much info as possible for someone else to look for sources. I just feel like they shouldn't be putting the burden on other editors to clean up their unsourced edits. Sometimes the sources don't catch up. Some of these older articles I've worked on have had cn tags from 2014, 15, 16, 17, 2018, sources have had plenty time to catch up by 2021, and as far as I'm concerned, if the tags are that old and sources can't be found to verify the info, it should be removed. This approach of waiting for sources to be found, and then no one actually looking for sources, is precisely the reason there was a massive backlog of ~1500 citation needed tags in these LGBT related articles. Isaidnoway (talk) 17:34, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

To which I say: the guideline is self-explanatory. Wikipedia:Citation needed#When to use this tag: "A "citation needed" tag is a request for another editor to verify a statement: a form of communication between members of a collaborative editing community. It is never, in itself, an "improvement" of an article. Though readers may be alerted by a "citation needed" that a particular statement is not supported, many readers don't fully understand the community's processes. Not all tags get addressed in a timely manner, staying in place for months or years, forming an ever growing Wikipedia backlog—this itself can be a problem. Best practice recommends the following:

Try to be courteous and consider the hypothetical fellow-editor who will, we hope, notice your tag and try to find the citation you have requested. When adding a tag, ask yourself: Is it clear just what information you want cited? Is the information probably factual? (If it is not, then it needs deletion or correction rather than citation!) Is the knowledge so self-evident that it really does not need to be cited at all? (Some things do not.)

Some tags are inserted by people well placed to find a suitable citation themselves. If this is the case, consider adding these articles to your watchlist or a worklist so that you can revisit the article when you have the opportunity to fix any verifiability problems yourself."

In a nutshell: as a community of editors, all editors should be willing to clean-up after other editors and improve the project. That's what we do. If it gets to be too much, leave it for someone else to pick up the pieces. Just as I came across these lists and added RS, and you came across these lists and added RS ... other editors will also come across these lists and add RS. Pyxis Solitary (yak). L not Q. 09:18, 20 March 2021 (UTC)

All the citation needed tags that I've ran across in these LGBT articles all give the reason for the tag being added as - "per WP:VERIFY", which is Wikipedia policy. So I will continue to look for sources for citation needed tags, but make no mistake, if I can't find a source to support the content, then I am challenging (per WP:CHALLENGE) that content (per WP:UNSOURCED), as being unverifiable, and I will remove the material per policy. Any material that needs a source but does not have one may be removed. If someone wants to re-add the challenged material, then the burden to demonstrate verifiability lies with the editor who restores material, (per WP:PROVEIT). Isaidnoway (talk) 08:09, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

You're an at-will Chatty Cathy, aren't you? Well, for whatever it's worth, when you edit Wikipedia you need to also accept that it is loaded with bear traps. There's WP:WIARM: "The spirit of the rule trumps the letter of the rule. The common purpose of building a free encyclopedia trumps both. If this common purpose is better served by ignoring the letter of a particular rule, then that rule should be ignored." And then there's WP:NOTTRUTH: "Unless you have verified it beforehand with a reliable source, you may not add content just because you believe it is true, nor may you delete content that you may believe to be untrue." Pyxis Solitary (yak). L not Q. 12:55, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

"is Lesbian" vs. "a Lesbian"

FYI: Stating "is lesbian" vs. "a lesbian" was discussed in WP:MOS in July 2019 and consensus was that "is lesbian" is neutral and not incorrect. Pyxis Solitary (yak). L not Q. 03:09, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

Where was this discussed? I can't find anything on the WP:MOS page about it at all. 2600:1700:7190:10C0:9D9C:E7D2:FD02:1E40 (talk) 05:00, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

I specifically stated "in WP:MOS in July 2019". To find old discussions -- be it in any MOS, ANI, WikiProject, Template, or article Talk pages -- they need to be searched for in the Archives of discussions. Here's the "She is lesbian." or "She is a lesbian." discussion. Pyxis Solitary (yak). L not Q. 14:10, 7 August 2020 (UTC)