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Royal Ladies

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The two Royal Lady Companions, The Princess Royal and Princess Alexandra, use the post-nominals "KG" rather than "LG" as was referenced at their creation in the Order and as is listed at the referenced page. IMO, their listings should not be edited to read "LG". — Preceding unsigned comment added by BigLabs87 (talk • contribs) 19:30, 24 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Discrepancy with List of Knights and Ladies of the Garter

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The member numbers in this article to not correlate with those in List of Knights and Ladies of the Garter. I do not have the necessary information to know which is correct so I cannot repair it myself. The numbers are one off, with the latest person in List of Knights and Ladies of the Garter being HM Felipe VI, King of Spain being listed as #1009.

Corrected as per List of Knights and Ladies of the Garter, which seems more authoritative. Revert if incorrect.Zephalis (talk) 23:02, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Officers of the Order of the Garter

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In the Officers section, the Dean of Windsor is stated to be the "Registrar". However, it appears that the office's proper name is "Register" of the Order of the Garter, not "Registrar". Please see pages 3 and 12 of Companion Magazine (issue 21, published on 13 June 2015), which is the magazine of the College of St George, Windsor Castle. This issue features the Order of the Garter and its relationship with St George's Chapel, Windsor Castle. On the third page, the Dean of Windsor (David Conner) is stated to be the "Register of the Order of the Garter". See: https://issuu.com/exposeddesign/docs/companionmagazine-order-of-the-gart . -- Blairall (talk) 17:49, 22 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Further to my comment above, I made the relevant correction to the article (in the Officers section) and added a reference there. -- Blairall (talk) 19:54, 23 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Camilla, Duchess of Cornwall

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Apparently, Camilla, Duchess of Cornwall has been created a 'Royal Lady Companion', and so has the post-nominal initials 'LG' instead of 'KG', which would indicate a 'Royal Lady', as with The Princess Royal and Princess Alexandra, The Honourable Lady Ogilvy. If this is correct, should the section in which she has been included now be titled 'Royal Knights and Ladies Companion' rather than just 'Royal Knights Companion'? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.18.49.140 (talk) 19:02, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Anne was actually installed as a Royal Knight Companion, but I digress. Considering that Royal Ladies Companion do exist and have existed for a long time (albeit that they use the postnominal KG as far as etiquette is concerned), it does seem appropriate it for the section to be titled 'Royal Knights and Ladies Companion'. OhDidgeridoo (talk) 19:37, 3 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Royal Ladies of the Garter are actually styled LG, not KG. The only reason Princess Anne and Princess Alexandra are KG are because they were appointed as Royal Knight Companions, not Royal Ladies. But I agree that the subheading should read, 'Royal Knights and Ladies Companion'. GandalfXLD (talk) 08:28, 4 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Alexandra was actually appointed as a Royal Lady Companion, not a Royal Knight. Unless there is something to back up the standard for Royal Ladies Companion to bear the postnominal 'LG', current etiquette dictates the use of 'KG'. OhDidgeridoo (talk) 19:22, 4 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Some of us don't think that Twitter is decisive. "The official website of the British Monarchy" has this about Anne: https://web.archive.org/web/20120111110418/http://www.royal.gov.uk/ThecurrentRoyalFamily/ThePrincessRoyal/Honours.aspx "In 1994 The Queen appointed Her Royal Highness a Lady of the Most Noble Order of the Garter."

The same site has this about Alexandra: https://www.royal.uk/new-members-order-garter-announced The Queen has been graciously pleased to appoint Her Royal Highness Princess Alexandra, The Hon. Lady Ogilvy, GCVO to be a Lady Companion of the Most Noble Order of the Garter.

Also the reports in The Times (London):

Hamilton, Alan. "Princess appointed to Order of Garter", The Times (London) (Saturday, 23 April 1994), page 1.
"The Queen has appointed the Princess Royal to the Order of the Garter, the highest order of chivalry within the sovereign's gift. ... She becomes a Lady of the Garter."

"Order of the Garter", The Times (London) (Thursday, 24 April 2003), page 39.
"Princess Alexandra has been made a Lady of the Garter, Britain's highest honour which is in the personal gift of the Queen."

I think that the official website and The Times are superior sources to Twitter. Noel S McFerran (talk) 01:10, 5 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Tony Blair

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Can someone enlighten me as to how Tony Blair, a native of Edinburgh, comes by a St George's Cross next to his name? Is there a precedent anywhere for this, as someone cannot be 'English' unless born in England, or overseas to English parents. This appointment is not without its controversy. Perhaps some sort of note might be worthwhile showing that it is not normal practice for those born in Scotland to be appointed to the Order, there being a Knight of the Thistle instead. I don't think it's citable here, but there were leaks some time ago that Blair turned down KT at some consternation to the Royal Household, as he wanted to be KG.--Stevouk (talk) 11:44, 3 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Stevouk You've raised a good point, so after a brief google search I'm tending to agree with you, so the relevant change has been boldy made. Nford24 (PE121 Personnel Request Form) 23:21, 4 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The question is also how one identifies oneselve. It's not because you're born in Scotland that you're necessarily a Scotsman. Blair's father was born in Yorkshire and his mother in Ireland (Donegal) which although he spent his youth in Scotland may have lead to identifying himself more as an Englishman than a Scotsman (he also did not return to Scotland after university). Also, with regards to being awarded the KT or the KG: it is "tradition" that former PM's were given (originallly also an earldom) the Garter and not the Thistle, but that's not always the case. Those rules are not set in stone and there is much precedent which favors the Garter.
Of course, the last Scotsman to hold the office of PM before Blair and Brown was the 14th Earl Home and he was a KT but not a KG. The one before him was Ramsay MacDonald, who was neither a KG or a KT. Andrew Bonar Law was born in Canada of Scottish descent and moved to Scotland in the 1870s but he died soon after his resignation as PM for health reasons and was thus neither a KG or KT (no time to award). The same for Sir Henry Campbell-Bannerman in 1908.
Balfour was born in East Lothian and was made an Earl and a KG but not a KT.
Gladstone was born in England, but both Gladstone’s parents were Scottish. He accepted neither a KG or KT.
The 5th Earl of Rosebery was a Scottish peer and was both a KG and a KT. The same for the 4th Earl of Aberdeen who was also a KG and a KT. The 3rd Earl of Bute however was "only" a KG. -- fdewaele, 11 January 2022, 11:52 CET.
[citation needed] on "someone cannot be 'English' unless born in England, or overseas to English parents". According to our article, although Blair was born in Scotland, his family moved away when he was 19 months old, and apart from a brief period when he was 5, his only other time in Scotland was attending boarding school there (which he apparently hated). It looks like he has lived in England since he went to university in Oxford, and he represented an English constituency in Parliament. It's really a matter for him whether he considers himself English, Scottish, or just British, but we certainly can't decide that he's not entitled to be English simply because he wasn't born in England. Proteus (Talk) 11:18, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Amos was born in Guyana. These flags don't make any sense, are misleading and are unnecessary anyway. DrKay (talk) 09:21, 15 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
... which begs the question, what does Tony Blair "consider himself"? And where is the evidence for this? Stevouk (talk) 06:57, 8 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Flag of Northern Ireland

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Is it really best to have the Ulster Banner represent Northern Ireland? While there is no official flag of Northern Ireland, it seems that Saint Patrick's Saltire is the less controversial one and is preferred by the royal family (considering it was used, for instance, during the Thames Diamond Jubilee Pageant).--Ff462 (talk) 10:52, 7 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Well I'll make the change. I don't suppose there is a wrong or right answer considering there is no official flag of Northern Ireland. However, Saint Patrick's Saltire seems like it is preferred for national events in the UK such as state visits or jubilees. Plus, for this list, it would simply look better because the miniature version of the Ulster Banner is hard to distinguish from the miniature version of St George's Cross.--Ff462 (talk) 11:36, 9 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

1000

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There is no whole member number of 1000; the list skips from 999 to 1001. The thinking behind this could be useful to the article.

Wonder if there were any qualms about member 666? 24.4.136.172 (talk) 03:03, 12 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

They gave 1000 to Prince William. Probably as he is likely to be King, and the count was about to hit four digits, so it seemed like a thing to do. But I agree, we should find some documentation of the thinking behind this. 2600:1010:B067:9027:2C1A:1BDE:6551:1F96 (talk) 03:10, 12 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Prince William, Duke of Cambridge is member 1,000. Likewise Prince Andrew, Duke of York is 997 and Prince Edward, Earl of Wessex is 998. Nford24 (PE121 Personnel Request Form) 04:10, 12 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Amos's banner

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My guess at Amos's lozenge

Graham Usher (bishop) recently Tweeted a photograph of St George's Chapel.[[1]] Behind the banner of Sir Thomas Dunne is one I have not seen before. I presume this belongs to Lady Amos. It is obviously per saltire Gules and Or but I don't recognise the symbol on it. Robin S. Taylor (talk) 20:27, 27 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

LG or KG?

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This is what I have put on the talk page for Birgitte, Duchess of Gloucester; I feel as though this page might get more footfall, however.

'Following today's announcement that Her Royal Highness has been appointed a 'Royal Lady Companion' of the Garter, many articles, including this one, have been updated to show 'LG' as her first set of post-nominal initials. However, Princess Alexandra holds the same grade within the order, but is 'KG'. It could be that only The Queen, as a 'Royal Lady' - that is, without 'Companion' - is the only female member of the Royal Family with 'LG' in this context. Given that the official press release from the Royal Household, via the website, contains only the letters that each person held before the announcement, and all other sources would presumably have taken their cue from this, I am at a loss what to think. Your thoughts, please.' ZeroAlpha87 (talk) 23:22, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Crowns, coronets, and flags

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Hello,

I'm not quite sure why the crowns, coronets, and flags have been removed from the names of the Knights and Ladies where suitable? In my opinion it was a helpful way to distinguish between different ranks of Prince (i.e. coronet of a grandchild of the sovereign for HRH The Duke of Gloucester, as opposed to the coronet of a child of the sovereign for HRH The Duke of Edinburgh), as well as an interesting addition for those interested in heraldry? Didn't want to reverse the changes made in case there was a reason I was missing. Thank you. Csexton345 (talk) 00:08, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That was done by me. The main reason is that there has been vast inconsistency over to whom these icons should apply, with some additions historically removed, while others have been left – with no reasons given to how one should identify the applicable entries – and this extends to similar articles. My view is that either every recipient should have them or no recipient should have them. I have tended to gravitate towards the latter, because they are not strictly needed, and point three of 'Inappropriate use' of MOS:ICON seems to be very subjective. ZeroAlpha87 (talk) 00:19, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
They are not a useful way to distinguish ranks of prince because all the crowns look the same at that resolution. Besides, such distinctions are not relevant to the topic of this article. DrKay (talk) 18:33, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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