Talk:List of best-selling music artists/Archive 27

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Archive 25

The Beach Boys

Harout, perhaps i was mention them before but i'm apologize to mention them again. They started their career at 1962 and their certification units nearly reach 28m, and i think is quite reliable to bring them again to the list and support 100m-records claim from The Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/music-news/9600643/Brian-Wilson-blindsided-by-Beach-Boys-sacking.html) What do you think? thanks Politsi (talk) 05:29, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

The same here, the 100 million is way inflated for 28.2 million in certified sales. We also have other reliable sources claiming more realistic figures for them, 65 million.--Harout72 (talk) 06:24, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

Yes, but now with the new rule, they no longer placed in this list. I just try to bring them back again, if they deserve to get that. And i think, yes they deserve. But, once again Harout. You are the main editor in this list and the most powerful to make a decision, then i need your advice.Politsi (talk) 06:48, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

No artist with inflated sales figures deserves to be on the list. If there are lower claimed figures out there which are closer to artists' available certified sales, then we'll use those (if that figure is 75 million or higher). Lower figures than 75 million, will naturally be left out.--Harout72 (talk) 16:23, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

100 million doesn't sound inflated when you take into account values of 350 million have also been reported by both the Times and the Daily Mail.^[1] The band's had over thirty-six US Top-40 chart placements with only the units of "Good Vibrations" and "Kokomo" being included in the tally. Add in the fact that eight of their most commercially successful albums have not been re-audited by the RIAA for over 45 years and that between 1963 and 1973 they had 14 top-40 albums in the UK when officially ratified awards have only existed after 1973 and it starts to become apparent that the 28.2 million and even the 65 million figure is hugely undershot. They meet the 20% of certifiable sales threshold set for artists of their era and for that reason, I strongly believe they should be included in the 100-119 million category.Jamekae (talk) 05:35, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

I also did some scouting and have discovered Rolling Stone's "well over" 65 million claim has been stagnant on that page since at least February 20, 2004. Since then the band have accumulated four platinum certifications and have put out a host of other releases. Jamekae (talk) 05:57, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Platinum-award-levels can be very low in some music markets.

In the U.S., in 2012, their Sounds of Summer has been certified 3x Platinum (previously certified 2x Platinum in 2005). They also have one Gold video certified in 2008 for 50,000 units.
In the U.K., in 2005, their The Very Best of The Beach Boys has been certified Platinum for 300,000 units (previously in 2001, Gold 100,000 units), and The Platinum Collection has received silver for 60,000 units there.
In Canada, in 2006, their Sounds of Summer has received Platinum for 100,000 units (previously in 2003, Gold 50,000 units).
In Australia, in 2009, Sounds of Summer has Gone Platinum for 70,000 units.
In Germany, in 2009, their 20 Golden Greats has gone Gold for 250,000 units.

I'm counting 3,680,000 certified units after 2004. What are the names of their most commercially successful eight albums which you say have not been certified? Also, do you have sales figures for those very albums published by reliable sources? In the U.K., The Beach Boys have had eight top-5 albums before 1973 which haven't been certified by the BPI. Would you happen to have sales figures for those albums that have sold under 2 million units? Or their seven top-5 singles released before 1973 that have sold under 1 million units but haven't been certified by the BPI?--Harout72 (talk) 06:58, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

The RIAA is down for me at the moment, but I don't think your statement that they haven't had anything certified in the US since 2003 is correct. There was a well-publicised reunion in 2006 where they were presented with a 2x platinum award for Sounds of Summer. Since then, I believe it has been awarded 3x platinum. Also, the only significant releases that have not been audited at all would be Beach Boys Party! which reached number 6 in the US and stayed on the charts for 24 weeks, and Surfin' Safari, these would likely be gold records by now. Albums like Today! and Surfin' U.S.A. are still solid sellers that have seen multiple reissues yet haven't been re-audited since a year or so after their initial release. Surfin' U.S.A. to Summer Days (And Summer Nights!!) in particular are albums that would likely be platinum records in the US today.

As for the sales figures of those UK albums and singles, I'm unfortunately unsure of their exact figures, though I'll continue to scout for sources. It's frustrating, because for a band that's primarily singles focussed, there's next to no data telling us just how successful they were on a per-unit basis. "Sloop John B" charted at number one in 9 countries and broke the top-5 in a few more and yet it's not represented at all in determining the 28.2 million units figure - and that's just one of many international number one songs that don't have any solid data! It's for reasons like these that the 65 million figure sounds terribly undershot and I think Rolling Stone knows it too, the "way over" prefix to the sales figure seems to suggest even they think it's an anaemic estimation.

I'll continue looking for more reliable sources to back up my claims, here are a few tidbits I've gathered when searching for data on song and album sales:

That's Why God Made the Radio sold 61k in the US in its first week.
Little Saint Nick has had digital downloads of 254k.
Sloop John B sold 500k units in the US in its first two weeks of release.^[2]
The Warmth of the Sun sold 14k copies in the US in its first week

Regards, Jamekae (talk) 09:26, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Okay, the RIAA site seemed to be working only partially for me yesterday as it brought up results of up to Made in the USA (certified in 2003), but my file is up to date, just didn't have a year on my file to go by. I corrected the total certified units above since 2004. I understand that a few millions of units may need to be re-certified as some of their albums may have reached either Gold status or Platinum or muli-Platinum by now. My main confusion is why there is such a huge gap between their available certified sales (28 million) and the so called 100 million units. I mean how could some 70 million units have gone uncertified? The U.K. could not have generated some 20+ million units with those albums/singles that have gone uncertified, and frankly they've never been that big in other markets including Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Sweden. Anyways, if you could provide some more actual sales figures (total in millions please, not in thousands), we could maybe put them up on the list with 100 million.--Harout72 (talk) 16:08, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

They were very popular internationally on a singles level, especially during 1965-1970. Here's a list of the thirty-nine international top 10 singles they have achieved.

Song	Chart position and country
"Surfin’ Safari"	#1 Sweden
"Ten Little Indians"	#8 Sweden
"Surfin’ U.S.A."	#2 Canada, #3 US, #6 Sweden, #9 Australia
"Shut Down"	#2 Canada
"Surfer Girl"	#3 Canada, #7 US, #8 Australia
"Little Deuce Coupe"	#7 Canada
"Hawaii"	#9 Australia
"Be True to Your School"	#4 Canada, #6 Sweden, #6 US
"Fun, Fun, Fun"	#5 US, #6 Canada, #6 Australia
"Don’t Worry Baby"	#3 Canada
"I Get Around"	#1 Canada, #1 US, #7 England, #10 Sweden
"Little Honda"	#2 Sweden, #8 Noway
"When I Grow Up (To Be a Man)"	#1 Canada, #9 US
"Dance, Dance, Dance"	#6 Sweden, #7 Canada, #8 US
"Do You Wanna Dance?"	#9 Sweden
"Help Me, Rhonda"	#1 US, #1 Canada, #5 Sweden, #10 Germany, #10 Australia
"California Girls"	#2 Zimbabwe, #3 US, #3 Canada, #6 Sweden
"Barbara Ann"	#3 Canada, #2 US, #2 Germany, #3 New Zealand, #5 Italy, #3 England, #3 Canada, #2 Sweden, #1 Norway, #2 Zimbabwe
"Sloop John B"	#1 Germany, #1 Holland, #1 Norway, #1 New Zealand, #2 England, #2 Canada, #3 US, #5 Belgium, #5 Sweden
"Wouldn’t it Be Nice"	#2 Australia, #4 Canada, #8 US
"God Only Knows"	#2 England, #4 Canada, #6 Norway
"Good Vibrations"	#1 US, #1 England, #1 Zimbabwe, #1 New Zealand, #2 Australia, #2 Norway, #2 Canada, #4 Holland, #6 Belgium, #8 Germany
"Then I Kissed Her"	#2 Holland, #3 Sweden, #4 England, #6 New Zealand, #9 Belgium, #10 Norway
"Heroes and Villains"	#5 Canada, #6 New Zealand, #8 England, #10 Italy, #10 Sweden
"Wild Honey"	#10 Australia
"Darlin’"	#9 Canada, #10 New Zealand
"How She Boogalooed It"	#10 Sweden
"Do it Again"	#1 England, #1 Australia, #4 Germany, #5 Sweden, #5 Holland, #5 Canada, #5 Norway, #5 Zimbabwe
"Bluebirds Over the Mountain"	#9 Holland
"I Can Hear Music"	#5 Sweden, #6 Holland, #9 Zimbabwe, #10 England
"Break Away"	#6 England
"Cottonfields"	#1 Sweden, #1 Australia, #1 Norway, #5 England, #5 Zimbabwe
"Tears in the Morning"	#6 Holland
"Rock ‘n’ Roll Music"	#4 Canada, #5 US
"Good Timin’"	#9 Canada
"Lady Lynda"	#6 England
"The Beach Boys Medley"	#4 New Zealand
"Wipeout"	#2 England
"Kokomo"	#1 US, #1 Australia, #5 New Zealand, #6 France, #6 Holland, #7 Germany, #8 Switzerland

If you team the albums that have failed to be re-audited since 1966, the UK/international album sales from prior to 1973 and all of these international hit singles, that confusion you face because of the difference between 28.2 million units and 100 million units should hopefully dissipate. Regards, Jamekae (talk) 20:37, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

No sales figures? I'm unable to verify most of the peaks as only Germany, the U.K. and Holland provide peaks dating back to 1960s, and early 1970s. Where are you getting them? I would, however, try to concentrate on the Top-5 positions, when looking at small and medium sized music markets. Because a few Top-10 positions from small music markets like New Zealand, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, Belgium aren't going to fill the missing 70 million of uncertified units. Similarly, some Top-10 chart peaks from medium sized music markets like Canada, Australia, Italy, Holland also can't translate into tens of millions units, especially back in the '60s, '70s. Let me spend some time studying and verifying the Top-5 peaks, and in the meantime if you could try and locate some sales figure in the Billboard magazine's earlier issues, it'd be great.--Harout72 (talk) 22:21, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

I'm struggling to find much in the Billboard magazines, though I did double check everything on that document you uploaded and I found these differences.

In 2011 Sounds of Summer went 2x platinum in Australia (+70 thousand units)

http://www.aria.com.au/pages/httpwww.aria.com.aupageshttpwww.aria.com.aupageshttpwww.aria.com.auALBUMaccreds2011.htm

Argentina's "Summer Dreams" platinum certification is worth 200 thousand units as it is a compilation. That's (+ 140 thousand units)

http://web.archive.org/web/20110820130534/http://www.capif.org.ar/Default.asp?PerDesde_MM=0&PerDesde_AA=0&PerHasta_MM=0&PerHasta_AA=0&interprete=&album=&LanDesde_MM=1&LanDesde_AA=1980&LanHasta_MM=12&LanHasta_AA=2010&Galardon=O&Tipo=1&ACCION2=+Buscar+&ACCION=Buscar&CO=5&CODOP=ESOP

California Gold was certified gold in Sweden (+ 20 thousand units).

http://web.archive.org/web/20120125103125/http://www.ifpi.se/wp/wp-content/uploads/guld-platina-1987-1998.pdf

So that's 230 thousand additional certified units. 210 thousand of which were credited after 2004. In conjunction with the miscellaneous sales data I posted about above, that puts the Beach Boys' traceable sales figure at 29.5mil.

As for the table data above, information was supplied by these sites (and their sister sites): http://www.ultratop.be/fr/, http://www.ultratop.be/nl/, http://norwegiancharts.com/; David Kent's coverage of the Australian chart (though it does admit chart positions prior to 1970 are spotty) and the http://www.mountvernonandfairway.de/ website (I'm currently in the process of trying to deconstruct where they got their information from to make for a more reliable source). Some of the data differs depending on which chart the source decides to follow, as you probably are aware, things were a little messier back in the 1960s and there were often multiple charts offering different data unfortunately.

Best regards, Jamekae (talk) 19:18, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

For Australia: thanks for that. I must have updated the number of the Platinum-awards, but failed to update the figure.
For Argentina: CAPIF's levels for compilation albums, Gold=100,000 units and Platinum=200,000 units which were suppressed after 2001, were for those compilations that included various artists. Regular compilation albums such as The Beach Boys' Summer Dreams were treated as regular albums. See this Billboard article from 1996, it says Platinum albums are awarded for sales of 60,000 units and at the top of the next column, the Greatest Hits album by Sumo is listed, representing sales of 60,000 units.
For Sweden: The Gold certification for California Gold posted in 1993 represents 50,000 units (see their earlier certification-levels here).
Chart-peaks: I can't verify Sweden's peaks through here, or New Zealand's peaks

I found one sales figure for the U.K., the album Best of The Beach Boys only a few months after its release date has sold 100,000 units and has spent 142 weeks on the chart there. I also, found a Billboard article from 1982 stating that Beach Boys Greatest Hits has sold 245,000 units in Australia. Couldn't figure out if they're referring to 1970 Greatest Hits. I believe there is enough evidence to assume that The Beach Boys may have sold 15-20 million units in the 1960s and early 1970s outside of the U.S. all of which clearly have gone uncertified. In my opinion, the 100 million is inflated by good 20-25 million units. But I'm going to put them on the list anyway with your source.

Thanks for patiently engaging in this discussion.--Harout72 (talk) 20:35, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

I've seen that The Beach Boys has been placed on the list, but looks like not properly. I will fix it. Politsi (talk) 04:46, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

David Bowie

David Bowie is missing from the list, his Wikipedia entry states 140m album sales. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.216.110.172 (talk) 04:57, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Harout, if 140m-albums still can not reach the minimum requirement of the list. How about 130m-records/albums claim by The Sun (United Kingdom)? (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4732139/david-bowie-to-release-first-single-in-a-decade.html) and actually how many of his certification sales so far, is it quite enough to support the 130m-claim? and for your record, most of news service still count him with 140m-albums claim.

Harout, i need your advice. thanks Politsi (talk) 05:11, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Oh wait, i have found this source from CNN (http://edition.cnn.com/2013/03/22/showbiz/uk-david-bowie-exhibition) claiming 130m-records of him, what do you think? thanks Politsi (talk) 05:14, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Bowie can only be listed with 113 million records as his available certified sales are only 22.6 million units.--Harout72 (talk) 05:17, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

The Osmonds

Harout, need your advice. As i remember, i never mention them before and i dont know who they are but Yorkshire Post (http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/at-a-glance/main-section/video-music-legend-merrill-osmond-visits-leeds-1-4882163) claim them have sold 100m-records, is this reliable? thanks Politsi (talk) 05:35, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

They don't seem to have enough certified sales, just 3 million certified singles, and 2.5 million certified albums.--Harout72 (talk) 02:13, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Beyoncé

On the Wikipedia page of Beyoncé is written that she has sold 118 million records, and on the page of best sold digital song-artists Beyoncé has sold 33 million records, plus her non digital releases (i don't know the number, but Crazy In Love sold 8 million) and her album sales (27.5 million). The digital sales + the album sales + Crazy In Love = 68.5 million. Then you need to add the non-digital singles - 8 million. I'm pretty sure the number is above 75 million. Also the "Pepsi and Beyonce partner sheet" says that she sold over a 100 million records WW (http://origin-qps.onstreammedia.com/origin/multivu_archive/PRNA/ENR/FX-MM26479-20121210-PEPSI_BEYONCE_FACT_SHEET.pdf). So could somebody change that? — Preceding unsigned comment added by MartRoggen (talk • contribs) 17:06, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

Please see the requirements for certified sales posted within the second yellow box from the top on this talk-page.--Harout72 (talk) 18:34, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

It states Beyonce's certified units are 50.6, for her 100 million claim, which is correct, but she should be lower in the 100 million section as her certified units are far below artists she is above. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.174.117.6 (talk) 14:17, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Pink Floyd

250 million is a bit inflated don't you think? Seriously I have nothing against them, it's just one member challenged me to find a more reputable claimed sales figures for this group claiming 200 million records sold.

Bloomberg and Richmond Times Dispatch reported that they have sold 250 million records. But EMI Music and Universal Music has said that they have sold over 200 million records. These two which I believe is more credible than the inflated numbers of Bloomberg and Times Dispatch. Mazic (talk) 13:59, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

And also there had been a lot of "credible" news sites claiming the band has sold over 250 million albums(As said in their lead page). (BBC, Telegraph, Daily Mail, etc) Isn't there a consensus or should a group of people here be alarmed with these inflation especially with artists in the 150 or more million records sold? Mazic (talk) 14:06, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

One of our sources on the list supports 200 million records. We don't use claims by Records companies, just news services. 250 million records (albums, singles, videos) is tolerable as their available certified are based on Albums (for the big part), singles, videos, but 250 million albums? Now that is inflated outrageously.--Harout72 (talk) 16:22, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Since you're the one who's the most active here, I suggest you check and verify each artists lead page because almost all news site checks wikipedia for fact checking like for example with their worldwide record sales. There isn't really a major site where these editors can go to see how much they really sold. I'm a bit skeptical about 250 million records. Part of it is because they, as an old act is hugely an album seller. Their total certified claims are about 111 million albums, singles and videos and most of it are albums. And let's say we'll be generous that they sold around at least 150 million to 175 million albums max worldwide. I don't think they are able to sell 75 million singles and videos worldwide since singles and videos are not the bread and butter at that time compared now. 200 million records is perfectly reasonable and to avoid any inflations I think we should stick to 200 million records and remove the 250 million. The two sites claiming they have sold 250 million records isn't credible enough compared to the 200 million records sites. Mazic (talk) 16:07, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

The 200 million records is claimed by Wanganui Chronicle, and one of the 250 million claims is by Richmond Times-Dispatch, the latter is similarly credible. What other reliable news services claim 200 million records, not albums? I see lot of them use the term albums including The Guardian, CNS News, BBC, The Wall Street Journal. We'd need more of the 200 million records, and they should be relatively new.--Harout72 (talk) 17:06, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

How can we even claim BBC, Guardian, CBS, etc. when I'm pretty sure 99.99% of them only looked at one website to check their sales and it's wikipedia. When 200 million albums is heavily mistaken as records. (The same can be said to a lot of artists here, for example Celine Dion, it states she has sold 200 million albums) the only thing that is getting in this project's way is the "biasness" of the editors, which I for one is a member too. The 250 million records as I said is inflated and you know that. 200 million records is the right amount. I've read a lot of music forums and Pink Floyd's hard sales is between 160-175 million records, 200 million records is even a bit generous considering older acts doesn't have strong single sales to back up their estimations. Mazic (talk) 19:05, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Here's more 200 million record sales sources I have found: Reuters(2013), Yahoo Music (2011),Yahoo Finance (2013), MSN (2011), PR News Wire (2011),Crave, It's interesting that you said labels shouldn't be taken as sources cause they inflate their sales, but how could Times Dispatch and Bloomberg claim 250 million when they are not even remotely related to the music industry let alone a label which has access to their sales data. And EMI&UMG states 200 million records, and it is believed that labels often inflate the numbers of their artists but some sites has even more of the number of the label's estimated figures in which in this case Bloomberg and Times Dispatch's claim of 250 million records. Let's pretend CNN, BBC, Daily Mail, etc's claim of 250 million album sold don't exist. It's also interesting to point out that a more reputable source like MTV has the same info as their lead page in wikipedia. And this can be found on many news site. Even their official fan site(published in 2011, that's just two years ago) news stated that they sold 200 million records. Read the title (Major Pink Floyd Release Campaign, 'Why Pink Floyd?') It's right that we should remove the 250 million records sold cause there are a lot of current sources and a more reputable one that states it sold 200 million records sold. Mazic (talk) 19:25, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

You're taking your anger on me because news services claim 200 million albums? I'm working everyday towards making this list look as free of inflated claims as I possibly can. In order not to attract unnecessarily long and unproductive disputes on this talk-page, my actions have to be calculated. In this case, I need to have two relatively new claims for 200 million records, so I can remove the 250 million claims. And most news agencies seem to claim either 200 million albums or 250 million records.

Now your sources above. The content of Reuters is fed by Business Wire, which is not a news service. PR Newswire which offers this article is not a news service either. Next Yahoo! is not a news agency either and this here by Yahoo! is the same content as in Reuters. And then you have this by MSN? What's considered a News agency is BBC, The Washington Post, Wall Street Journal, The Los Angeles Times,The New York Times, The Telegraph etc.etc.--Harout72 (talk) 21:18, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

To Mazic, I understand that you want to give some contribution to make this list more reliable. Let me tell you that i'm the one who found the 200m-records claim from Wanganui Chronicle. I suggest you to find a reliable source to support your argue in here and please do not use the source from Reuters, Yahoo, or MSN because many time we found that source is un-acceptable from those source. I could say that Harout and Me are working together to make this list very complete and reliable. I hope you could do the same thing like us. Thanks Politsi (talk) 01:47, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

I agree with everything you said although "What's considered a News agency is BBC, The Washington Post, Wall Street Journal, The Los Angeles Times,The New York Times, The Telegraph etc.etc." have all claimed 250 million albums and interestingly the excerpt of the sentence where the records sales are found are identical to the ones written in wikipedia.I would agree though with 200 or 250 million records. With that said 250 million records also seems to be inflated. My biggest question is how can Bloomberg and Times Dispatch be more reliable than their own label which have access to their estimated sales data? As I've said earlier it's known that labels mostly inflate the sales of their artist(ex.MJ), there's no way they will deflate it. Given that, 200 million records is the closest and most reliable estimated amount of record sold by this band and 250 million should be removed. I do admire Led Zepellin's lead page and it should be modeled like this because it was not biased and was very clear that it said "various sources estimate the group's sales at more than 200 or even 300 million albums worldwide." Mazic (talk) 07:07, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Harout, the source for 250m-records of this band from Bloomberg and Times Dispatch looks like old (from 2007) and what do you think about this two sources (http://syvnews.com/entertainment/music/tribute-band-to-play-pink-floyd-hits-at-casino/article_aa19613a-47de-11e2-969b-001a4bcf887a.html) and (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2242178/Pink-Floyds-lead-singer-Chris-Dennis-said-regret-leaving-band-RAF-posting.html). Both of this 2012 source, claim the band have sold 250m-records.

And Mazic, i think just let the band with their 250m-records claim, they deserve to get that i think Politsi (talk) 10:28, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

It's not a matter if you think they deserve it or not, heck I even think they deserve to sell those millions of records cause I do think they are that influential. With that said, we have to distinguish facts from fan fictions. And the 250 million records claim is factually inflated. But if you keep on clinging to 250 million records, that's fine with me just as long as it's not 250 million albums! Regards, Mazic (talk) 16:56, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Take it easy please, we don't have to kill someone to make this list reliable. I agree with you that we should concern with the most actual claim sales rather than fan fictions like you said above, but the matter is we only have one source for 200m-records claim and if you see the year when they started their record and their grand total certification sales. 250m-records is absolutely reliable. And please do not talk too much in here if you don't bring something good for this list. But personally i'm happy with it, because so far only me and Harout are really active in this talk page. Politsi (talk) 01:31, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Forbes Reliability??

Harout (and perhaps another editor). I need your opinion about this. So far, we include the source from Forbes to support the claim sales of those artist in this list (such as Prince and Tupac Shakur) and we consider Forbes as a reliable source.

But, i'm shock reading this article, written by Will Burns from Forbes regarding with Beatles's The Sgt. Pepper albums, in that article it is said:

"the success of Sgt. Pepper (has sold over 32 million copies, according to Wikipedia)". (http://www.forbes.com/sites/willburns/2012/02/02/the-sgt-pepper-brand-liberated-the-beatles-does-your-brand-liberate-you/)

What kind of news reporter writing like this? according to Wikipedia?. Harout, Do we need to trust this source? how can we use them to support the claim figures on this list, if they just get the source from Wikipedia?

I think we need to kick out and not using a source from Forbes, because likely they just write anything without checking the fact and just get the source according to Wikipedia.

Harout, what do you think ? thanks Politsi (talk) 06:47, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Oh wow, that is bad journalistic work. We should definitely try to avoid using Forbes in the future.--Harout72 (talk) 15:03, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Harout, i will try to replace the claim figure which is provide by Forbes in this list with a better source. As i remember. Whitney Houston, Prince, and Tupac Shakur are using the source from Forbes. I will replace it soon.

And believe me, despite only me and you which looks so active in this list, but i believe all news reporter around the world and all artist are keep an eye on this list. Politsi (talk) 01:46, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Richard Clayderman

Harout, I need your advice about this most famous romantic pianist of all time. How much exactly his certification sales? because The Sydney Morning Herald (http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/music/pianos-prince-of-romance-returns-to-lift-hearts-20130203-2dsi5.html) claim him to have sold 85m-records. is this reliable? thanks Politsi (talk) 02:00, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

He doesn't have enough certified sales. He has 1.5 million from France, 1,360,000 units from the UK, 100,000 units from Canada, 35,000 units from Australia and 100,000 units from Brazil, total of almost 3.1 million certified units. He needs 19.2 million certified units as he's begun charting in France in 1977.--Harout72 (talk) 02:25, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Cher Swiss, Argentine and Spanish certs

Cher's Swiss certifications are not 270k but 295k, you must have counted the greatest hits albums as one even though they are two different compilations:

2001 Living Proof Album WEA/Warner Gold 20k
1999 The Greatest Hits Album WEA/Warner Platin 50k
1999 Believe Album WEA/Warner Doppel-Platin 100k
1998 Believe Single WFA/Warner Platin 50k
1992 Cher's Greatest Hits Album Geffen/BMG Gold 25k
1991 Love Hurts Album Geffen/BMG/MV Platin 50k

http://hitparade.ch/search_certifications.asp?search=Cher

Thank you!Alfiebot (talk) 02:47, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

Yes I have counted "Cher's Greatest Hits" (1992) and "Greatest Hits" (1999) as one. Thanks for correcting it. But in the future, please include your detailed explanation on this talk page before making changes, because your brief explanation in the edit summary doesn't quite point out what could have been missed.--Harout72 (talk) 01:07, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

OK, no problem:). I also wanted to appoint that Cher's Argentine certifications should be 160k not 106k, as The Greatest hits '99 is Gold and compilation albums need to sell 100k units to be certified Gold according to CAPIF rules http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentine_Chamber_of_Phonograms_and_Videograms_Producers so a gold compilation and a platinum regular album equals 160k. Thanks!
Alfiebot (talk) 07:47, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

Let me first put up below what I have for CAPIF:

The Greatest Hits (Gold=30,000 units)
Believe (Platinum=60,000 units)
Live in Concert DVD (2x Platinum=16,000)

My total is 106,000 units. CAPIF's levels for compilation albums, which before January 1, 2001 was Gold=100,000 units and Platinum=200,000 units and suppressed after that date, was for those compilations that included various artists. In other words, regular compilation albums such as Cher's Greatest Hits are treated as a regular album. See this Billboard article from 1996, it says Platinum albums are awarded for sales of 60,000 units and at the top of the next column, the Greatest Hits album by Sumo is listed, representing sales of 60,000 units. Here is my list of Cher's available detailed certified sales.--Harout72 (talk) 17:59, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification, and thanks a lot for the list with all the available certifications!
The only ones that are missing there to my knowledge are the New Zealand ones:
Heart of Stone(Platinum)
Love Hurts(Platinum)
Cher's Greatest Hits 1965-1992(4x Platinum)
Shoop Shoop Song (Gold)
which bring Cher's certified sales there to 150k, but I know that they cannot be referenced from an online source yet.
Also, on your list you're missing a Silver certification for "Love Can Build a Bridge" single in the UK, which adds to 5.9 mill cert units, so please check the BPI database to confirm the update. Thank you again.
Alfiebot (talk) 21:47, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

Well, the reason why I haven't included "Love Can Build a Bridge" is because it's performed by four artists. We only include the certified units of those albums/singles/videos which are based on solo performances or duo performances.--Harout72 (talk) 21:06, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

Hmm that doesn't seem quite logical if the certification is not listed as Various Artist but states the names of each artist.
Anyway, does that mean that i.e for the Lady Marmelade cover non of the girls (Pink, Lil Kim, etc) would get the credit for the sales of that single?
Alfiebot (talk) 23:47, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

I think it is logical. Why should a Platinum certification (for example) go to all four artists, when each one has a very small part in it? It would be the same with the single "Lady Marmelade", yes.--Harout72 (talk) 21:46, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

OK, thanks for the clarification again. Anyway, I have stumbled upon a UKMIX forum thread www.ukmix.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=27310&p=2376472&hilit=Cher#p2376472 where a person who possesses the "Sólo éxitos: año a año, 1959–2002 (1st ed.). Spain: Fundación Autor-SGAE. ISBN 84-8048-639-2" Spanish chart book stated that Cher has 3 certified albums in Spain:
Believe (1998) - 4x Platinum
The Greatest Hits (1999) - Platinum
Living Proof (2001) Platinum
so that brings it to 600k of cert sales in Spain. I take it that you need a scan or something...
Alfiebot (talk) 19:47, 06 April 2013 (UTC)

Yes, we'd need a scan that captures not only the certifications, but also the part of the page that shows that it's from that reliable book for Spanish charts.--Harout72 (talk) 04:14, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

would be cool if you Harout72 bought the book as you're such an expert, it's only 30$ and you could include the sales to all the artists... not just this book, all the available chart books too! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.230.89.151 (talk) 17:14, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for that Cher certifications list Harout, one correction though, the IFPI Certified Sales are not 5 but 6 mill, the GH 99 was 2xPlatinum... --Uncleangelo (talk) 13:46, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

added additional 100k for Cher's The Greatest Hits and 100k for Living Proof, along with 400k for Believe that's 600k in Spain. Here are the scans with Cher's chart records in Spain from the "Sólo éxitos. Año a año. 1959-2002" book http://www.mediafire.com/view/?s5qkldd20v3ifkt the pages show data for various artists as well, so if it's of anyone's interest feel free to use it for referencing. thank you. Uncleangelo (talk) 19:49, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Your file does support Platinum (**) for The Greatest Hits on page 4, but on page 5, I see only Gold (*) certification for Living Proof. I'm not sure where you see the Platinum for Living Proof.--Harout72 (talk) 21:50, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

sorry for that. here's the file with the page from its second week on the charts showing its Platinum status http://www.mediafire.com/view/?zk8m9cakf4z2t6y also the last page shows all the Platinum and Multi-Platinum albums certified in 2001. thanks for pointing it out! Uncleangelo (talk) 01:03, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

OK, I see. I'm not sure if you have this book in your possession, but if you do, I'm just curios, how many pages of certifications does that book have. I'm referring to the pages that contain strictly certifications (the page where the last column says Certificados). --Harout72 (talk) 23:16, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

lots of pages for albums from the 1980s and onwards. I don't have it in my possession, only pages for Cher and a few artists which are not on this list. One person was nice and patient enough to write the full list here www.ukmix.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=27310&start=300 though it can't be used as a source... Uncleangelo (talk) 01:55, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

ABBA

Usually ABBA are said to have sold more than 300 million records, with the number of 360 million being especially popular (this number has also been acknowledged by their record company Universal Music way back in 2004). There are many sources that prov that, like http://www.abc.net.au/news/2004-04-07/abba-have-sold-over-360-million-albums-file-photo/1000810, http://www.rockhall.com/inductees/abba/bio/, http://movies.nytimes.com/movie/349023/World-s-Greatest-Albums-ABBA-The-Gold-Singles/overview, http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/508315/unreleased-abba-song-finally-hitting-stores... All of them feature figues between 300 and 400 million!
The two sources already provided in the article that state 100 million apparently only count the pre-1982 singles, so this is certainly not correct! Therefore ABBA should rank much higher in this list! HarrySwed (talk) 09:09, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

No wonder you saying like that, you are a newbie in here. Listen kid, this list has been build to explain to the worldwide reader the true and the real from the claim sales figure of those famous artist. Have you seen ABBA certification sales? That group started their career only since 1972 and their certification sales only around 55m. Therefore 100m-200m records is more logical rather than 300m-400m shit claim from their fans published. I'm the one who put the 100m-claim for ABBA in this list and that's reliable. If you don't accept it, you can ask the main expert editor in this list (Harout) and if still not enough for you. get out from here. thanks Politsi (talk) 10:28, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Wow, look at you, what a nicely written reply to my simple and polite question. You obviously seem to have some serious problems, don't you? I'm sorry for that. Anyhow, these certified sales figures the list provides obviously are just a small fraction of the real figures. Looking at The Beatles is a good indication, as those numbers would indicate sales of barely more than 40 millions outside the US, which is just ridiculous. But okay, you think that using wrong sources to compile this list makes it reliable? You think that it is your right to say which sources are true and reliable and which are not? On Wikipedia? Are you serious? And how on earth would anybody think that 100 million is reliable? ABBA Gold is close to reaching 30 million units sold, which would leave sales of 70 million for each and every other ABBA record for 41 years. If you know that little about ABBA you obviously need another hobby other than this list. HarrySwed (talk) 11:26, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Oh Harout. Do we need to explain about this list to this kid?.

Problems? what is that? Could be eaten?. Listen kid, your statement above is really clear to us that you are just a naive ABBA fans, who wanted their idols being better and respected anywhere BUT here. You obviously need another thing rather than just Dancing Queen, Waterloo, Waterlaa, Whatever. But could you please respect us, who was dedicated time and work for this list? Politsi (talk) 12:29, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Your statements ooze with disrespect, which makes it actually impossible for me to either respect you or the "work" you have done. If you need a place to publish all the work that you regard as correct and where you don't have to deal with other views and critique, I'd say you create your own website. Wikipedia is certainly not the place for such behaviour! It's a place where people are supposed to work together. Why work here if you aren't able to take criticism? I've provided sources and given explanations that make sense and are comprehensible. You on the other hand are not able to provide either of them. And if that wasn't enough, you aren't even capable of engaging in a normal discussion, let alone talking to me in a normal way. Really? Tells a lot about you and your "skills"...HarrySwed (talk) 12:59, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Why work here if you aren't able to take criticism? I've provided sources and given explanations that make sense and are comprehensible

Listen Kid, you started your discussion with this sign ! and you started your discussion with this word The two sources already provided in the article that state 100 million apparently only count the pre-1982 singles, so this is certainly not correct Therefore ABBA should rank much higher in this list!. Is this you said as Discussion?. That word and that sign is not acceptable If you wanted to started and discuss about artist in this list and if you have some idea and a good source to support this list you can started the discussion with asking and not put a sign like this !. This will raise anger from the other editor who has been dedicated their time to make this list became one of the most prestigious list in Wikipedia.

Now, i suggest you to read the rule of the article before you started some discussion, we welcome to all newbie. But, we are not welcome with this ! and this not correct . (Who are you?, saying like that). Politsi (talk) 01:45, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Politsi, your comments here are unacceptable. Please assume good faith and don't bite the newbies. We were all new here once and reactions like this don't do anything to foster a collegial atmosphere here.--ukexpat (talk) 13:29, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Ukexpat, thanks for remind me. But i dont accept a newbie, who just read this list and with vanity started the discussion with this ! and saying this so this is certainly not correct! Therefore ABBA should rank much higher in this list!. Politsi (talk) 01:45, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

To user HarrySwed: This list uses those claimed figures which are closest to artists' available certified sales. This is stated at the end of the lead. Besides having claims of 100 million records, we have 200 million claims as well. Also, note that we have required percentage amounts for certified sales which you can find within the second yellow box from the top on this talk-page. So, for a claims as high as 300 million records, ABBA would need 60 million in certified sales. ABBA's available certified sales, however, are 54.9 million.--Harout72 (talk) 15:32, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for your response! Let me just tell you that I really respect the work you have done here by putting this list together (assuming that you did the main job). Having done some research myself on different matters, charts included, I know how much work this can be. I also understand how insistent you seem to be concerning those certified sales and how important they are for your calculations. However, let me just tell you that, at least in my opinion, these figueres only portray a very small part of reality. Being used to work with all kinds of sources as part of my university studies I have to tell you that on the subject of claimed figures, your choice of sources is highly questionable. I don't know if you are responsible for picking out sources that are far beneath the usual official sales number or if this is the work of your little companion. In my initial comment I have provided various sources, like Billboard, that state other numbers. Also the record company itself and experts on that subject (probably more into the subject of ABBA than you or "Politsi" - no offence) provide totally different numbers than you do. Now you might counter like your little adjunct and calling this the talking of "naive ABBA fans, who wanted their idols being better and respected anywhere". But please, take into consideration that I'm not 12. I don't play "my favourite artist is the best" games. All I want is to make sure that this really informative list you have put together can be called just that - informative. Unfortunately the behaviour of people like "Politsi" can't be called expedient in this regard, as it portrays disrespect towards other users, towards the artists you are dealing with and also disprespect towards normal (academic) conventians what the usage of sources is concerned. Although this discussion will unfortuantely amount to nothing, I just want to make sure that you can add me to the, judging by all those previous discussions on all kinds of artists not too small, list of people who are at least a bit sceptical about this list. HarrySwed (talk) 19:48, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Why would one believe that the available certified sales for ABBA portray a very small part of their actual sales? Why would one think that ABBA has really sold 300 million or more records? The reason I'm asking this is because I've been analyzing claimed sales published by news services for years now, and it seems that news services would publish just about any sales claims given to them by artists' record companies. The intention of the latter is simply attracting more buyers, boosting sales regardless of what marketing strategy they use. Record companies have been inflating their artists' true sales figures for as long as the music industry has existed. On the other hand, when available certified sales are brought in, to analyze sales figures, one immediately can tell that the actual sales of an artist in question is not even half as much as claimed by sources (in most cases). Yes, some records (albums, singles, videos) have not been certified in some markets due to not having certification-systems during the era when ABBA sold most of their records, but that is the exact reason why we keep our required certified sales amount as low as 20% of the claimed figures. Note that 70% of the global records sales is generated by music markets which have had certification-system in the early and mid 1970s, that includes USA, UK, Germany, France, Canada (see our section for Notes for that information).--Harout72 (talk) 22:56, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

to HarrySwed. Are you sure, you are a university student? are you sure that you are not 12 years old? (perhaps 12,5). And are you sure, you understand the meaning of Behaviour?. Look at yourself, are you deserve saying like that?. Listen Kid, we welcome with your suggestion but it will be good if you analyze the characteristic and the method of this list before you came with some vanity and !. You said that ABBA's Gold Greatest Hits has sold some 30m, then please provide the source because that album in the best-selling albums list still count that album at 28m. It would be helpful if you could provide the 30m-source because i'm also handle that list. Rather than talk, talk, talk, and !.

HarrySwed, let me informed you that Harout is the most trusted editor in this list and all of his argue is the most reliable than the other. You can also give some argue but i suggest you to read this list carefully and please show up your argue with good description and reliable source, thanks.Politsi (talk) 03:46, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Regarding the certified sales: out of the 19 countries you list (by the way: yes, there are more than 19 countries on this planet), only 2 (TWO) listed include 1972 while 6 others start during the time ABBA was active, which leaves 11 countries that don’t even cover a single year of the active period of ABBA. Furthermore, those single sales are highly questionable. Looking at a market like Germany, you list total single sales auf 250,000 which obviously is FAR removed from the actual truth. And yes, the sum of all these aspects make me assume that it actually really is just a rather small fraction of actual sales. But seeing that you have already removed the 100 million sources, you obviously agree with me, at least to some degree.

And Politsi, your assertations don’t really work out well for you, so I’m gonna ignore most of them. Just one thing: if you want to have a conversation with somebody, please start using a different attitude. And for god’s sake, read carefully: I never stated that ABBA Gold has sold 30 m units. And one last thing: your line about someone being “most trusted editor in this list and all of his argue is the most reliable than the other” is actual a quite dangerous one. The notion of someone who is always right, regardless what he/she says reminds me days long gone. HarrySwed (talk) 07:04, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

HarrySwed, First. You should learn on the future a well manner as a newbie. Please remember to be carefully using this sign !. this sign ! is a symbol of vanity (especially if you just started some talk or discussion). Be a man/woman please and face it. Second, about Harout i'm saying that personally (and it is my bussiness) for me, he is the most reliable editor in this list (despite sometimes i'm not agree with his argue) but for me that's the truth. If you or any other editor doesn't agree with my statement about him, that's your bussiness (and i don't care) even Wikipedia already say about do not feed the Diva but he always the one who really care about the reliability of this list. Third, the source of 100m-records previously has been deleted with the reason that claim is just before ABBA disbaned on 1982, but i will put this source from Billboard (http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/1551303/abbas-agnetha-faltskog-drops-comeback-single-album-to-come) this recent article stated 100m-albums of ABBA and I will use it in this list (the same claim of Albums only being used also to 200m-Led Zeppelin and 150m-Queen). Please remember, in the 200m-list ABBA has the lowest certification units than the others. Politsi (talk) 08:39, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

This will be my last reply to you as it obviously doesn't make sense talking to you. Judging by your comments, you are either not reading what I write or you aren't capable of fully understanding the content. Therefore it's just wasted time really. And you informing me about manners is really funny. Thanks for a good laugh! Furthermore: if you are using that Billboard link of yours please make sure to include this one as well: http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/508315/unreleased-abba-song-finally-hitting-stores That would be objective, wouldn't it? But obviously your intention is to sabotage this list and Harout's work by knowingly falsifying its content, which actually is really something between you two and none of my business. Take care! HarrySwed (talk) 09:31, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Oh, I just saw that you have changed your previous comments here! Is it really that important to you? Seriously? HarrySwed (talk) 09:46, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Case close with you (and do not ever replying my comment again). I dont want to waste my time replying your comment again, you understand me! (i'm never using this sign ! if it's not so important for me) and i've seen that ABBA 100m-albums has been deleted but i will bring back that claim in this list, because your billboard source above is came from 2012 while my Billboard source came from 2013 and i've been discuss this with Harout and he gave the decision to me. (sorry, you dont deserve to get Thanks, because you dont give any contribution yet to this list). Politsi (talk) 01:35, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

I am an ABBA fan and I always believed the claims of 350-400 million to be totally unbelievable. Just because something gets reported in the media doesn't make it 'fact'. I welcome the downgrading of ABBA sales to 100-200 million (and the downgrading of The Beatles and Elvis from a billion to 600m and from Michael Jackson from 750m to 300-400m - don't forget we are talking all sales - albums, singles, downloads. ABBA fans might like to look at this site http://abbasales.hpage.com (Coachtripfan (talk) 10:18, 17 April 2013 (UTC))

I read this article in which ABBA fans - including the one writing here complaining about the downgrade, do concede the 350m figure is too high. http://www.iphpbb.com/board/ftopic-30652567nx61610-13668.html (Coachtripfan (talk) 08:16, 18 April 2013 (UTC))

Yeah, what a revelation! Surely 350m is too high, but just like that also 100m is too low. The truth will most likely be somewhere between 200 and 300m (maybe more towards 200m). My point was that I'm not really supporting the way this list is created, namely by using a limited number of countries to calculate a limited number of certified sales and afterwards go looking for so-called reliable sources that are closest to those certified sales while ignoring other sources that state otherwise. This is especially questionable as nobody will ever be able to tell the "correct" number of sales, so one might wonder where all these sources get their figures from. But god forbid that someone might want to discuss this approach, let alone question it (or even worse: use an exclamation mark). Following the responses to my comments as well as the private talk between the two main editors of this list during the previous weeks teels a lot about the credibility of this list. So from what I've experienced here during the last week I at least can tell how reliable this list appears to me... HarrySwed (talk) 21:11, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

To Coachtripfan, thanks for bringing those source in this talk page. That's so objective, you were ABBA fans but you keep logical to see the truth. again, thank you. Politsi (talk) 01:51, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

HarrySwed, the so called limited number of markets listed here, happen to represent 85-90% of the entire global market share. Yes, lot of the music markets didn't have a certification-system back in the 1970s, during the peak point of ABBA's career. But bear in mind that important markets including U.S., U.K., Germany, France, Canada, had certifications in the early 1970s. You might find it hard to believe but those aforementioned music markets alone generate good 60-65 of the global annual sales. And by posting the available 54 million in certified sales, we're not, in any way, trying to say that ABBA have sold only that much. But that much certified sales also suggest that ABBA's true actual sales figure can't be more than 150 million. Your question: one might wonder where all these sources get their figures from? Those figures have been converted from Gold/Platinum certification-awards (if you're referring to the column of the certified sales). As for the way Politsi replies sometimes to editors, I agree that some of his responses need work and/or are not at all well thought out. But let me point out that all sources provided by Politsi up to now, have all been highly reliable, with an exception of very few. Therefore, the way he chooses to respond to some editors, does not make this list less reliable. But the fact, that one day you appreciate all the work that's been put together here, and next day you choose to post comments like: these weird guys are trying to create a reality that somehow appeals to them, clearly raises questions about your state of mind.--Harout72 (talk) 02:52, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Dear Harout, to start with, let me apologise for the term "weird guys". That was certainly not appropriate. However, let me also repeat something that I've written earlier in this conversation: "Regarding the certified sales: out of the 19 countries you list, only 2 (TWO) listed include 1972 while 6 others start during the time ABBA was active, which leaves 11 countries that don’t even cover a single year of the active period of ABBA." And by looking at the provided figures more closely, it becomes clear that obviously only a certain amount of releases has ever been certified (which is quite natural). But just to give an example: in Germany you list sales of 150.000 for singles, because only "Fernando" has ever been certified. Yet they had more than 20 top-10 hits in that country, which obviously have created much bigger sales in total. So yes, I repeat what I have said before: yes, I highly appreciate the work you've put into compiling this list of certified awards and I don't question it, as those are facts. What I do question is what you do afterwards, by hunting for sources that somehow fit your calculation model. My question "one might wonder where all these sources get their figures from" was in that context: where do you think all those news services get their figures from, that you use as "reliable sources" (honestly, I was really suprised to see your surprise about Forbes using Wikipedia as a source - I mean, where else would all those news services and newspapers get those numbers from as there is no official source available? --> I'd really love to hear your oppinion on this one!)? Even identical sources, like Billboard, keep using different numbers in almost every article. And what you do is picking the ones that fit your calculation and ignore the other ones. Yes, that is somehow questionable. And if I read comments in your conversations that go along the lines of "they should be listed higher because they deserve it" and others "don't deserve" it I really do get the feeling that at least every now and then Politsi isn't all the objective. Reactions to me and the attitude towards ABBA make it pretty clear that he has his preferences and also shows them, which frankly does harm to the credibility of your list. And let me make it pretty clear: his comments don't just "need work and/or are not at all well thought out". Some of them are extremly rude, impolite and offending. From what I've heard, he is only one step away from being blocked. Nothing you get just because your comments are not "all well thought out" I guess. HarrySwed (talk) 08:07, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

HarrySwed, Stop talking about me in here. If you don't have any contribution at all for this list, then stop raising anger of another editor. and about the possibility that i could be blocked from here, that's not your concern.

I've done with you, and STOP saying something related with me. you JUST have to see the list, and do anything you could to make this list more reliable and prestigious.

You could see my conversation with Harout in this talk page, if you have something good (reliable source for claim figure) for this list. Please use your attitude by asking Harout first (even you've already have a good source), and don't ever use this sign ! IF you want to started some discussion.

But, If you dont want to hear my suggestion at all, just ignore it. Politsi (talk) 09:43, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

This discussion thread has gone on too long. This will be my last comment here as this is going no where. HarrySwed, please pay close attention to links or files I have provided for you above.

Germany: I have 250,000 units for "Fernando", not 150,000 units. Also, ABBA haven't begun charting in Germany until 1974. That's only a year before they established their certification-system (1975). So, the reason why they have only "Fernando" certified Gold is because the rest of the singles obviously haven't reached 250,000 units of sales (Gold status back then).
U.K.: ABBA have begun charting in the U.K. in 1974. That is one year after the U.K. established their certification-system. So all records that have reached certification-levels, must have been certified.
France: ABBA have begun charting in France in 1974. That is one year after the establishment of French certification-system.
Canada: ABBA have begun charting in Canada in 1974. That is one year before they launched their certification program.

Of course we know that the U.S. has had its certification-system since 1958. Those five markets alone as I've said above, make up 60-65% (or more) of the entire global music sales. Let me emphasize this once again, and I said this above, the available certified sales posted are not immediately related with ABBA's actual sales. They are simply there to illustrate the sales bracket where the actual sales might fall into. And clearly the 200 million records for ABBA is a big stretch. Over 100 million records, but under 150 million. And that's what our source states, more than 100 million records, not necessarily 100 million. As for your question where news services get their figures from, they get them 99% of the time from artists' record companies. But I'm sensing that they are avoiding to do that as they're all beginning to realize that record companies almost never give them true sales figures, they simply receive inflated figures for promotional purposes. So I don't blame the news services for turning to sites like Wikipedia. I think enough has been said for one band's sales.--Harout72 (talk) 15:22, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

I agree, enough said on this topic. As much as I like to engage in a discussion, I have the feeling that we're not really progressing. I think we should just agree to disgree on certain things. Nothing wrong with that I guess. Take care. HarrySwed (talk) 17:31, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

HarrySwed, I can't help feeling you were looking for an argument. This site clearly states (1) ABBA sold between 100-200m records. Not just 100m. (2) 55m certifications, yes.Claims for artists pre-1975 (eg ABBA) would have to have at least 20% of sales which were certified. Many of the major markets already had certifications.

Please note too that the vast majority of records are sold in just a few key markets eg UK, US, Germany, Japan - as pointed out by Harcout72. (If you look at Gold's sales on http://abbasales.hpage.com you'll note for example the vast majority are in just a few countries. Incidently, the huge sales for this aren't typical for ABBA - but the distribution of most sales in just a handful of countries is).

Thanks for the comments Politsi.(Coachtripfan (talk) 16:18, 23 April 2013 (UTC))

Michael Jackson sold 750 - 1.000 millions records worldwide.

Wall Street Jouran is just a diary, does not have any power in the industry or certify anything, so why this newspaper say that Michael Jackson did not sell 750 or 1,000 million records need not be true. When in 2006 Michael Jackson was presented the award Diamonde in the WMA for the 100 million copies of Thriller also recorded sales of over 750 million records sold. And all the media says the figure from 750 to 1000 million sold when playing a disc. So I demand you put that MJ sold between 750 - 1000 million albums because it's true. Up Billboard says MJ sold more than 750 million when playing a disc, as well as CNN, BBC, ABC, NBC, and all the world's television networks. And if Wikipedia wants to be a serious encyclopedia, it has to put the truth and the truth is that MJ sold between 750 and 1000 million shaste the time diff. In 1996 WMA MJ certified as the best-selling artist of tods time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.53.23.179 (talk) 19:28, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

If you're so adamant that so many sources support the 750 - 1 billion claim, please provide the sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.174.117.6 (talk) 06:51, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

The 750m Michael Jackson figure was inflated, as were 1 billion for both Elvis and The Beatles and 350m for ABBA. Yes, sometimes media outlets do report these - but they are wrong. Looking at MJ's albums Thriller has sold around 60m-ish, BAD just over 30m, Dangerous a little under 30m, History around 20m max. Off the Wall 20m or so. These are his big sellers and you only get 160m albums. Add all other studio albums, compilations and his Motown era stuff I can't see how you get more than 200m albums. There's singles and downloads of course which would give his total to be 300M plus. Like I said, it's not just MJ who has had sales downgraded but other artists too - rightly. (Coachtripfan (talk) 16:37, 23 April 2013 (UTC))

Melanie Safka

Harout, i think this list has became famous around the world. Because i've seen several un-know artist but they claim to have sold million albums.

For example, Melanie Safka. Excuse me harout, but i really don't know who she is. The News-Herald (Ohio) (http://www.news-herald.com/articles/2012/05/02/life/doc4f9f064b87578567981145.txt) claim her has sold 80m-albums.

What do you think? thanks Politsi (talk) 09:04, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

I see 2 million certified units from the U.S., clearly not enough.--Harout72 (talk) 15:25, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

I think this list has become something that many artist dreamed about it. Politsi (talk) 04:07, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

The Doors

Harout. Today, I was checking each claim figure source of those artist in this list, to make sure all the source still active. and then I found that 80m-albums claim for the Doors, is missing. Please check again this source and proved me that i'm wrong.

(http://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/view/184486/When-You-re-Strange-Film-review-and-trailerWhen-You-re-Strange-Film-review-and-trailerWhen-You-re-Strange-Film-review-and-trailerWhen-You-re-Strange-Film-review-and-trailer).

I've try to find another source to replace that with same claim (80m-albums) but i can't find it. Harout, this is only my suggestion. If we still can not find that figure for them (80m), what if we place them in the 100m-list by using this source?

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2013-01-11/news/os-lk-doors-alive-mount-dora-20130111_1_jim-morrison-bass-music-sound

Their certification sales is good enough to support that claim, what do you think? thanks Politsi (talk) 11:25, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

I think you know already that we keep the sales figures low, close to available certified sales.--Harout72 (talk) 15:21, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Yes Harout, of course. I completely support it. But the matter is, if we click the site for the claim figures source of The Doors (Daily Express), the page is Missing and it seems that source has been erased already, we need to keep all site still active because i think that is one the most important thing in this list.

I dont know perhaps, the problem happen's only in my computer but would you please try to click the The Door's figure source, is it still active in your computer?

If not, we need to find the new source immediately with same claim (80m-albums) but if we still could not find it. like i said, we replaced them with the new claim (100m-albums).

To be honest, i still could not find it. Maybe you could? thanks Politsi (talk) 04:05, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Harout, if we still can not find the other 80m-albums claim source and you think that 100m-albums is look too much for them, What if this 75m-albums claim by San Jose Mercury News (http://www.mercurynews.com/music/ci_16906619) need your advice. thanks Politsi (talk) 04:48, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

I fixed it. The archived version of that source is available.--Harout72 (talk) 04:58, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks harout. We need to make sure the site of claim figure always active. Politsi (talk) 05:20, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Frankie Valli and The Four Seasons

Harout, i never heard them. Perhaps this group are singing for Four Seasons Hotel, but this source (http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/theatre-dance/features/why-frankie-vallis-jersey-boys-are-still-working-their-way-back-to-us-and-into-cinemas-8573986.html) said them have sold 100m-records. what do you think? thanks Politsi (talk) 03:58, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Not a chance. I see 4.5 million in certified units from the U.S., 460,000 units from the U.K., 50,000 units from Canada. Not enough.--Harout72 (talk) 05:42, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Wow. that's rich. Harout, i think you and me should be proud for what we've done to this list. Imagine that, now so many artist so desperate to claim having sold 80m and 100m records in media. for what?. I think it must be this list. Politsi (talk) 08:10, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Rihanna

Rihanna needs 68% in certified sales so with 86 million she can have over 120 million in claimed sales. Sources for 120 million claimed sales: 1. http://www.tampabay.com/things-to-do/music/rihanna-brings-the-sin-and-a-touch-of-class-in-her-tampa-bay-times-forum/2116402 2. http://www.mercurynews.com/entertainment/ci_22974441/rihanna-5-things-you-need-know 3. http://www.tampabay.com/things-to-do/music/taylor-swift-rihanna-go-back-to-back-at-times-forum/2115664 Ilikeriri (talk) 15:42, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Two of your sources speak of Singles only, while the third one states 30 million albums and 120 million singles (total 150 million). Therefore, we cannot use anyone of them.--Harout72 (talk) 15:48, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Madonna 200m-records claim

Harout and perhaps to Madonna fans (i'm a former Madonna fans). I need your advice, what do you think if i put her lowest claim figure (200m-records) of her in the list by BBC News? (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-15672254)

so she has three claim in the list, same like MJ. need your advice harout. thanks Politsi (talk) 05:49, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

If it said 200 million records, I'd advise against using that source as Madonna's available certified sales are over 161 million. But since it says over 200 million records, I believe it should be fine to put it up there next to her other claimed figures.--Harout72 (talk) 15:25, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Harout, thanks for your advice. I've try to find another 200m-figure plus for Madonna (beside from BBC), but most of the prestigious news source always claim her sales at 300m. So it seem's the over 200m-figures looks not appropriate for her. So i decided to let her with 275m-300m only. Politsi (talk) 01:25, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

KATY PERRY

77.44.232.141 (talk) 10:27, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

as it's mentioned in the wiki article katy has sold 11 million albums and 75 million singles

shouldn't this info put her in the list at least with the 75 million row >>>????????????? since other artists in this list have only 8 million certificated sales while Katy have more ................. right ?

like this page from RIIA they classified Katy the third in certificated singles

with 29.5 million units http://www.riaa.com/goldandplatinum.php?content_selector=top-artists-digital-singles and this page is talking about her sales in the US alone

and this alone can put hr in the article .. right ?

please pay attention

– — ° ″ ′ ≈ ≠ ≤ ≥ ± − × ÷ ← → · §

Will.i.am and 110.2 million certified sales

Will.I.Am's certifications (ALL BACKED UP BY CERTIFICATIONS ON WIKIPEDIA WEBSITE AND RIAA/ARIA/etc. CERTIFICATIONS)

SINGLES

14.6 - I Gotta Feeling (As BEP)

10.7 - Boom Boom Pow (As BEP/Producer)

6.9 - OMG (Featured/Producer)

8 - My Humps (As BEP/Producer)

7.3 - The Time (As BEP/Producer)

4 - Scream & Shout (Main/Producer)

3.1 - Fergalicious (Featured/Producer)

2 - In The Ayer (Featured/Producer)

2 - Hall of Fame (Featured)

3 - Let's Get Retarded/It Started (As BEP/Producer)

1.5 - Where Is The Love? (As BEP/Producer)

1.5 - Pump It (As BEP/Producer)

4.1 - Big Girls Don't Cry (Producer)

2.1 American Boy (Producer)

3 - Meet Me Halfway (As BEP/Producer)

TOTALS: 73.8 MILLION

---

ALBUMS

4 - The Dutchess (Producer)

8.5 - Elephunk (As BEP/Producer)

10 - Monkey Business (As BEP/Producer)

11 - The E.N.D. (As BEP/Producer)

2.9 - The Beginning (As BEP/Producer)

TOTALS: 36.4 MILLION

---

Total certified sales in this case total 110.2 million albums/singles sold.

---

I started writing a section for will.i.am in the "100-119 million" section, but I ended up getting too lazy to start listing all of will.i.am's creds. I will either finish it (or if someone would like to finish it for me) later.

Here is the progress on the section: |- ! scope="row" | [[will.i.am]] | United States | 1992-present<ref name="will.i.am Biography">{{Cite web|url=http://www.monstersandcritics.com/people/will-i-am/biography/|title=Monsters and Critics: will.i.am Biography|accessdate=2013-5-6}}</ref> | 1992<ref name="will.i.am Biography"> | <small>{{ntsh|110.2}} {{hidden|'''Total available certified units: 110.2 million'''|*list creds here | style="text-align:center;"|110.2 million

First sign your edits, second the certifications for Black Eyed Peas are for that group, not for Will.I.am as a solo artist.--Harout72 (talk) 04:24, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

The Beatles

Harout, what do you think about this source from The National (http://www.thenational.ae/arts-culture/music/dubai-gets-ready-to-twist-and-shout-to-celebrate-50-years-of-the-beatles) it is said about 700m-albums of The Beatles.

And 250m-records from Deutsche Welle (http://www.dw.de/beatles-50-years-of-fame-began-in-hamburg/a-16281641)

Which one is reliable to be put on the list? or both not?. Need your advice. thanks Politsi (talk) 02:16, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Deutsche Welle claims something very low based on The Beatles' certified sales, and The National claims something very high. Leave them both out.--Harout72 (talk) 03:04, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Elvis Presley 600m-records

Harout, need your advice. is this source quite reliable? (http://dalje.com/en-bestseller/31st-anniversary-of-elvis-presleys-death/172727) thanks Politsi (talk) 02:31, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

I can't find information on that source at List of newspapers in Croatia, but it appears to be a news service in Croatia. Go ahead and add it next to our other 600 million claim for Presley.--Harout72 (talk) 03:00, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Harout. But when i look back again, i think that source is not beautiful. I wanted this list looks beautiful and properly, That's why I always arrange the claim figures source in this list as much as looks properly, to make this list very prestigious. Politsi (talk) 04:18, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Genesis Albums certification

Harout, I need your advice. actually in their 38.7m-units certification, how many exactly their albums sales only. Because i feel they don't deserve to get 150m-records in the list.

If 90% of their certification units come from their albums sales. I think 130m-albums is more appropriate for them (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/obituaries/john-mayhew-drummer-who-played-with-the-fledgling-genesis-on-trespass-1671354.html). thanks Politsi (talk) 05:10, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Actually, 98% of Genesis' certified units are based on albums. I too think that the 150 million is way overblown for Genesis. Looks like your source above is one year newer than the one we currently have for Genesis. If there are no sources that claim 130 million records, then we should be ok with replacing our source with the one you recently found.--Harout72 (talk) 15:48, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

None and thanks for the info Harout. And i just feel not comfortable with The Daily Telegraph (U.K) because this news service has been published many inflated sales figure. I think, i will put Genesis with 130m-claims. Politsi (talk) 17:19, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

I've been put Genesis with 130m-albums claim Politsi (talk) 01:48, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Source from Book?

Harout, I need your advice. So far we only received a source from News Organization and Music Industry. But how about from Book that have been published by someone?

Like this (http://www.tinyripple.com/DonnaSummer.htm) about 100m-records of Donna Summer. What do you think? thanks Politsi (talk) 01:48, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

No, avoid those.--Harout72 (talk) 02:13, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Rihanna claim sales from Euronews

Harout, we have a big problem for her. Her claim figures of her from Euronews are missing, we must immediately find the new for her. Need your help and advice. thanks Politsi (talk) 06:06, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

I will replace it with this (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=10871010) thanks Politsi (talk) 06:22, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

The Power of this List

Harout, i really need your opinion for this. So far, we keep this list to make it very reliable and prestigious. Personally, i think the claim sales figures in this list is very important and should be put and match with each biography of those artist in their own article in Wikipedia.

I've been trying to match the claim figure in this list to each artist, but i'm still curious why to several artists (such as Queen, ABBA, Beatles, and Elvis Presley) the editor who's handle their article refuse the claim figure in this list.

For example, I've been put Queen's claim sales from 150m-200m according from the list in their biography. BUT the editor in their article always revert it again to 150m-300m. For me, actually this is weird!.

Harout, please advice. How much important the contain of this list?.

Why the contain of this list not became a mandatory rules for each artist biography?. do we make something like a vandalism? I need your opinion. thanks Politsi (talk) 04:15, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

The Platters

Harout, what do you think about this old bands? and this source (http://jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20121209/ent/ent3.html) 80m-records. thanks Politsi (talk) 04:31, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Not enough certified sales, just one million certified units from the states, and some 120,000 units from the UK.--Harout72 (talk) 05:44, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Mariah Carey

Since one of the established artists of the 90's where the claimed sales should range from 40 to 60%, should her ~120 million certified sales brings a total of 220 - 240 million actual sales ? Fidel 14:48, 16 May 2013 (UTC) Thanks

Based on her 120 million certified units, it seems that she has sold not more than 150 million records (albums, singles, videos) worldwide. Clearly the 200 million for Carey is inflated enough.--Harout72 (talk) 15:12, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Then how come Madonna with 161 million sold nearly 300 million? and there are many many sources claiming Mariah's sales for 220 million records like Late Night with Jemmy Fallon, Wendy Williams claimed that she had sold nearly 260 million.... Fidel 15:18, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

I wasn't aware that this was a competition list as you view it. But Madonna hasn't sold 300 million based on her available certified sales either, her actual sales should be somewhere in the neighborhood of 250 million maximum. And why would anyone-who understands records sales-care what people like Fallon claim during their shows? Also, you might want to read the very last sentence in the lead of this list.--Harout72 (talk) 15:44, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

So both are inflated! I didn't knew it sorry!

Led Zeppelin 200m-records and The Daily Telegraph (U.K) source

Harout, so far this band has been listed with 300m-records and also include with 200m-albums as their lowest claim.

but how about this source from Seattle Post-Intelligencer? (http://www.seattlepi.com/lifestyle/blogcritics/article/Music-DVD-CD-Review-Led-Zeppelin-Celebration-4118573.php) it is said 200m-records. is this reliable?

because if it yes, then i will kick-out their 200m-albums claim in this list with this new records claim.

And i need your permission. I feel that The Daily Telegraph (U.K) is not good as their history, because i've learn that the editor in this news service is quite stupid.

for example, what do you think about Adele's 21 in this source (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/celebritynews/9450131/Singer-Adele-babysits-for-a-strangers-child-at-high-street-cafe.html) 220m-copies?. what a stupid silly i think.

I will try to erase all claim figures in this list from The Telegraph (U.K).

Need your advice and permission. thanks Politsi (talk) 01:49, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Most of Led Zeppelin's certified sales is based on album sales, but surely it'd be better to have 200 million records, rather than 200 million albums, Seattle Post-Intelligencer is reliable. As for Adele, I think they meant to type 22 million albums, they mistakenly typed 220.--Harout72 (talk) 02:57, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

That's what i mean it too, but for me. That's absolutely danger for the Telegraph reputation, they should know that their articles will be spread through worldwide, that's why all contain must be evaluated carefully.

and for 200m-records of Led Zeppelin. thanks for the information Harout, actually i just found one source which claim 200m-records of the band while there is so many claims for 200m-albums. And to make the list still beautiful to see, i think i will let their 200m-albums on the list until i have found another source for 200m-records. thanks harout. Politsi (talk) 04:17, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

All News Editor follow this list

HAHAHAHA. I can not believe it, such a prestigious news source like The New York Times and The Belfast Telegraph use a source from me.

Before i'm successful to find new claim figures for Green Day and Meatloaf, they still said to have sold 65m and 70m.

After I re-new their own article in Wikipedia with the new claim sales, 75m for Green Day and 80m for Meatloaf.

They use it.

Meatloaf (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/entertainment/music/reviews/bats-all-folks-after-epic-swan-song-29267674.html)

Green Day (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/07/booming/from-sex-pistols-to-gaslight-anthem-and-green-day.html)

Look it Harout. What Do you think? thanks Politsi (talk) 09:30, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Bonnie Tyler?

Don't know if the Sun can be used as a reliable source but here they claim 80 mill records sales for the Welsh diva http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/tv/4932276/bonnie-tyler-eurovision-united-kingdom.html Anyone knows her certifications level? thanks Uncleangelo (talk) 20:55, 18 May 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Uncleangelo (talk • contribs)

For a claim as high as 80 million, Tyler would need to have 17 million certified units (or 21.33%). I don't see enough certified sales:

USA: 3.5 million
UK: 810,000 units
Germany: 1,250,000 units
France: 500,000 units of albums and 1,750,000 units of singles, (total 2,250,000)
Canada: 475,000 units
Switzerland: 125,000 units
Austria: 125,000 units
Finland: 74,523

There may be a few more, but it's never going to be enough. Looks like she may have sold maximum of 30-35 million records worldwide based on her certified sales above (8,609,523 units), but 80 million is completely inflated.--Harout72 (talk) 18:49, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the certification breakdown Harout72! I thought so too, so I did some research and found this info on the Eurovision page claiming 20 mill records sold http://www.eurovision.tv/page/history/year/participant-profile/?song=29803 a much more realistic figure for sure...Uncleangelo (talk) 13:49, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Yeap, 20 million+ is just about right based on her available certified sales.--Harout72 (talk) 17:11, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Taylor Swift??

Harout, is there vandalism in here? why she's here? i think she's not ready to claim 101m-records with only 71m-in certification sales. Beside, her certification only spread in six countries.

101m-records is still look's so inflated, i think we must wait her certification reach 80m to reach that claim. Rihanna so much better than her, need your advice. thanks Politsi (talk) 08:48, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

OMG... Taylor 101 million records sold and Rihanna 100? Sorry, but that's not true... — Tomíca^(T2ME) 09:18, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Swift has enough certified sales to meet the required certified sales amount. Believe me, at the rate that she's collecting her certifications, she will reach 80 million in certified units within only months.--Harout72 (talk) 11:01, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, but that's WP:CRYSTALBALL, there is no f way that she has amassed a total of 101 million sales. I grantee that! — Tomíca^(T2ME) 13:10, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

That's a CRYSTALBALL? Do you even know what that term stands for? The bottom line here, is that Swift has enough certified sales to meet the requirements. You do know that we have requirements for certain amount of certified sales, don't you? If you don't, I suggest you go to the second box from the top on this talk page and have a look at it. By the way, this list should not be viewed as a competition list.--Harout72 (talk) 17:10, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

I am not looking at this as a competition list, but the list is just not right. Who add those rules??? It's stupid just to think that Swift sold more than Rihanna. It's awkward, when people read it they will laugh about it, of course because it's not true. — Tomíca^(T2ME) 00:08, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Tomica, please hold your anger for a moment. This list is considered the most reliable source for claim figures of artists worldwide, even the editor from all prestigious news source will see this list rather than the artist publishers.

The contain of this list is also very controversial but please respect Harout and me because we working day-by-day to kept this list in consistence way. I would not say this list is perfect but this list is reliable.

It would be greatful for us, if you make yourself useful by trying to find the better source for Swift claim figures. Politsi (talk) 06:21, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Hi Politsi. I am not angry, I am just disappointing seeing untrue sales. I still don't believe Swift sold 101 million copies. More than Rihanna? Lol. Will try to find smthg. — Tomíca^(T2ME) 07:29, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Taylor Swift may have enough certified sales for a 100 million claim, but 101 million? Really? No other artist on this list has their claimed sales EXACTLY to the right amount, they are instead rounded up or down by either 5 or 10 at least. If she has enough certified units, it should be for a 100 million claim, and even then, she should be below several other artists like Rihanna and Metallica because her certified units for 100 million aren't as high as theirs. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.174.117.6 (talk) 09:12, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 19 May 2013

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

please correct the total sales of Britney Spears who have surpassed 100 million and have reached 130 million worldwide to date. This is easily demonstrated if one adds all the sales of Albums, singles and videos from the beginning of her career to date.^[3] 79.131.103.168 (talk) 15:16, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

It's correct.--Harout72 (talk) 17:09, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Britney Spears has sold 100 million albums, and 28.6 million singles that are only digital (that's not even considering the physical sales of her singles) she has sold AT LEAST 120 million RECORDS worldwide when you consider her DVD's etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.174.117.6 (talk) 09:21, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Misleading rankings

This list is ranked by claimed numbers of records sold, and for that reason it is extremely misleading. (Each separate group can be sorted by certified sales, also, but the overall list cannot.) For example, Shania Twain is way down on the list, with claimed sales of only 80 million. But her certified sales of 71 million are greater than the certified sales of several dozen artists/groups with higher claimed sales figures. They, or their record companies, are evidently guilty of embellishing the truth, which Twain is not. (She is two places below Gloria Estefan, who claims 90 million sold, but has only 32.7 million certified - less than half Twain's figure.) Her honesty makes her appear to be far less successful, relative to them, than she really is. The "Claimed sales" column should be eliminated, because anybody can claim anything they want. If desired, those figures can be cited in footnotes, or contained in parentheses below the certified sales for each entry. Treplag (talk) 02:19, 21 May 2013 (UTC)Treplag

There is one small problem with listing artists/bands based on certified sales only. Lot of the music markets' haven't made certifications issued before 1990s available in their certification-databases including Australia, Brazil, Austria, Poland etc.(see our notes section for that information), although most have had certification-systems since the 1970s and 1980s. Therefore, having the rankings based on certified sales alone, may not reflect the true picture for older artists/bands whose earlier certifications we don't have access to.--Harout72 (talk) 02:23, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Rihanna

Now that her certified sales are 95 million should we consider updating her sales 150 million? Several sources reported about, here are some 1, 2 and 3. I would like to hear the opinion of other users. — Tomíca^(T2ME) 15:35, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Your sources aren't reliable. But Rihanna can be listed with a claimed figure as high as 139 million records (albums, singles, videos combined), if of course the source is by a new agency.--Harout72 (talk) 15:40, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Really? How is MTV not reliable please tell me? And also the others one. I don't see any of them failing notability. — Tomíca^(T2ME) 17:48, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

I think there is a difference between notability and reliability. Quite frankly, the fact that all three have screwed up and published a sales figure as outrageously inflated as 150 million for Rihanna, makes them all unreliable. Rihanna's actual sales based on her available certified units, should be somewhere around the neighborhood of 110 million or maximum of 120 million records. While Cape Town Magazine may be notable, we don't accept such sources here at this list. As for MTV, we only accept MTV if articles are directly from their Newsroom, as the editorial board is entirely different for the latter.--Harout72 (talk) 00:26, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Harout, i think this the time that we should place Rihanna to 150m-list because her certification is very excellent, she will cross the 100m-certification in a month. Need your help. thanks Politsi (talk) 06:24, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Rihanna will need 102.4 million in certified units to be listed with 150 million claim. Yes, most probably she will collect the needed 7-8 million certified units in one month. So if you can find a news service claiming the 150 million and post it here, I will make sure to update her claimed sales once she's at 102.4 million certified units. All sources that user Tomica posted above are useless for this list.--Harout72 (talk) 15:20, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Rihanna has sold over 11.4 million records in the UK acording to The Official Charts Company, and you post she has only 9.7 millions. Official Charts Company.

In Denmark, Pon de Replay (Gold - 15,000) Source 1, SOS (Platinum - 30,000) Source 2, Unfaithful (Platinum - 30,000) Source 3, Umbrella (2x Platinum - 60,000) Source 4, Shut Up and Drive (Gold - 15,000) Source 5, Don't Stop the Music (Platinum - 30,000) Source 6, Take a Bow (Platinum - 30,000) Source 7, Disturbia (Platinum - 30,000) Source 8, Rehab (Gold - 15,000) Source 9, Russian Roulette (Gold - 15,000) Source 10, Rude Boy (Gold - 15,000) Source 11, Love the Way You Lie (Gold - 15,000) Source 12, Only Girl (In the World) (Platinum - 30,000) Source 13, S&M (Plstinum - 30,000) Source 14, We Found Love (2x Platinum - 60,000) Source 15, Princess of china (Gold - 15,000) Source 16, Where Have You Been (Platinum - 30,000) Source 17, Diamonds (3x Platinum - 90,000)Source 18, Stay (Gold - 15,000) Source 19 Take Care (Gold - 15,000) Source 24. Her albums Talk That Talk (Gold - 10,000) Source 20, Loud (Platinum - 20,000) Source 21, Unapologetic (Gold - 10,000) Source 22, Good Girl Gone Bad (Platinum - 20,000) Source 23. She has sold over 645,000 records in Denkmark acording the certified units by IFPI Denmark.

Acording to Rolling Stone (magazine) Rihanna has sold over 41 million albums and 150 million digital singles Worldwide. Rolling Stone Magazine, Emirates 24/7. With the 95.09 million certified plus 1.7 million Uk sales (the difference between 9.7 and 11.4) plus 645,000 in denmark, the total of Rihanna certified sales are 97,435,000. 97,435,000/ 150,000,000 = 65%. Rihanna have their claimed figures supported by over 60% in certified units, so i think you can move she to the 120 million to 199 million with claimed sales of 150 million records. --24.139.76.197 (talk) 00:17, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

We post the certified units of albums, singles and videos, not the actual sales units. The Official Chart Company in this article speaks of actual singles sales only. Also, you have incorrect certification levels posted above for Denmark. This source says that Denmark IFPI raised its singles levels from previous 8,000/4,000 to 15,000/7,500 on February 1, 2007. And as far as I'm concerned, the singles levels were raised again to 30,000/15,000 in 2009. Unless you have a different source that says otherwise. So based on that:

"Pon De Replay" has been certified gold for 4,000 units, not 15,000 units as it was released in 2005. (see page 23 for Denmark's certification levels in 2005)
"SOS" has been certified Platinum for 8,000 units, not 30,000 units as it was released in 2006. (see certification-levels until early 2007
"Unfaithfull" has been certified Platinum for 8,000 units, not 30,000 units as it was released in 2006. (see certification-levels until early 2007
"Umbrella" has been certified 2x Platinum for 30,000 units, not 60,000 units as it was released in March 2007. (See the levels in your source under 2007-08-02)
"Shut Up and Drive" has been certified Gold for 7,500 units, not 15,000 units as it was released in June 2007.
"Don't Stop the Music" has been certified Gold for 7,500 units, not 15,000 units as it was released in September 2007.

I can go on but it's waste of time. Based on Rihanna's detailed certified sales, the figures (41 million albums and 150 million digital tracks) by Rolling Stone magazine are completely inflated. Anyways, I don't include Denmark's certifications on the list because we still don't know all of their dates for changes in certification-levels.--Harout72 (talk) 02:29, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Comment: I'd just like to point out here that any and all RIAA certifications Rihanna receives for digital singles after May 9, 2013 follow the new "combined" rules that include streaming, where 1 download and 100 audio/video streams each count as 1 certification "unit".

This is how "Love the You Lie" and "We Found Love" were able to receive an 11× Platinum certification and a 7× Platinum certification despite only selling 5.86 million^[4] and 4.98 million downloads,^[5] respectively.

These two singles alone lower Rihanna's certified purchased albums, downloads, and videos to 88 million.

^ Arkell, Harriet (9 April 2013). [hthttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2306391/Lost-Beach-Boys-lyrics-music-photographs-expected-sell-10m-lying-Florida-storage-unit-years.html "Lost treasure trove of Beach Boys lyrics, music and photographs expected to sell for $10m after lying in storage unit for years"]. Daily Mail. Retrieved 13 April 2013.
^ Murrels, Joseph (1978). The Book of Golden Disks. Barrie & Jenkins. ISBN 978-0214205125.
^ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britney_Spears_discography
^
"Week Ending Aug. 7, 2011. Songs: Place Your Bets". Nielsen SoundScan. Yahoo! Music.
- britster (2013-05-05). "US Top 200 Songs in Digital Era". Nielsen SoundScan. BuzzJack.com. Retrieved 2013-05-08.
^
"Week Ending Aug. 19, 2012. Songs: Swift Makes Digital History". Nielsen SoundScan. Yahoo! Music.
- britster (2013-05-05). "US Top 200 Songs in Digital Era". Nielsen SoundScan. BuzzJack.com. Retrieved 2013-05-08.

--Mαuri^’96 “everything and nothing always haunts me…” 00:51, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm aware of RIAA's new rules, I think RIAA should have created a separate certification award for streaming alone. Now we simply can't do anything but to simply ignore what portion of the awards will be based on streaming. We'll have to include the awards for singles as they appear on RIAA's database.--Harout72 (talk) 02:29, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Wow, Maurie. It so impress me that you have made that summary for Rihanna. Harout if her certification is enough already to get the 150m-sales, we could use this source (http://www.mercurynews.com/entertainment/ci_22974441/rihanna-5-things-you-need-know) or this (http://mg.co.za/article/2013-04-07-prepare-the-iv-drip-and-marijuana-rihanna-is-coming-to-sa). thanks Politsi (talk) 05:05, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Lady Gaga

Harout, is Lady Gaga is ready to enter the 80m-list? (http://www.bangkokpost.com/learning/easier-stuff/290373/lady-gaga-fans-start-final-countdown) thanks Politsi (talk) 07:02, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

For 80 million claim, she needs 58.2 million in certified units (72.8%). So far she's at 54.6 million.--Harout72 (talk) 15:29, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

But Harout, that's just only less than 4 million from the requirement, why we don't just let it be and put her in the list? Politsi (talk) 01:35, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

You make it sound as if it's only 400,000 units.--Harout72 (talk) 02:35, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Hehe, well i just try to persuade you. Politsi (talk) 02:58, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Black Sabbath

Harout, i don't how much of their certification sales but The Tampa Tribune (http://tbo.com/arts_music/black-sabbath-to-play-tampa-on-july--b82488402z1) said them have sold 75m-albums. What do you think Harout?. thanks Politsi (talk) 01:31, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Based on their available certified sales (16.3 million), 50 million records by The Independent is just about right. The claim for 75 million albums is way overblown.--Harout72 (talk) 02:33, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Ozzy Ozbourne

Harout, I need your advice. What's the different between RT (TV network) and Euronews? because I think they are same as news television channel, we accept the source from Euronews but we can't accept the source from RT.

I feel this is confusing. Because if they are same, then we could use this source for Ozzy Osbourne 75m-records claim (http://rt.com/news/prime-time/ozzy-scream-moscow/).

Need your advice. thanks Politsi (talk) 04:37, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

RT Network could work, but Ozzy Ozbourne has only 32.8 million units certified units, and The Independent claims 50 million records for his sales, which is more realistic.--Harout72 (talk) 05:24, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Mariah Carey 165m-records ??

Harout, we always wanted the claim figures of those artist is nearest to their certification sales, but how about this claim from The Stupid, Silly, and Ridiculous news source? (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/3671906/Mariah-Carey-Come-in-and-smell-the-perfume.html)

165m Total record sales worldwide. Carey is the second-bestselling female artist of all time - behind only Celine Dion (175 million). Sylvia Patterson.

(Hello lady.. who the h3ll are you saying like that? have you ever heard Madonna?)

Harout, need your advice about this source. thanks Politsi (talk) 05:44, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

We already have another claimed figure close to that, 175 million records. 10 million units isn't a big difference for an artist who's got 120 million in certified units.--Harout72 (talk) 06:02, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Julio Iglesias ??

Harout, i really concern about the contain in this list, but i need your advice for this old singer. MOST of the news source always claim his record sales between 250m-300m. While we put him in here with my source (120m-records) but it's old already (1998) and i think it's not reliable enough if we still let that source in this list.

Harout, i need your advice. Should we deleted his name from this list or just let him with 120m-records claim from an old source? thanks Politsi (talk) 11:27, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Iglesias certainly didn't sell over 150 million units in only 14 or 15 years. It's ok to keep him at 120 million with his older source, because that's the sales figure his available certified sales suggest. Billboard in this article, claims 100 million units for him in 2000. Normally it's ok to keep older sources if it's an artist/band that no longer sells millions of records. Iglesias may or may not have sold a few million records after 2000 as his popularity ended pretty much in mid 1990s.--Harout72 (talk) 15:40, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

KATY PERRY

77.44.232.141 (talk) 11:56, 24 May 2013 (UTC) I just want to know some info about her sales and when we expect to see her here please if she has 75 million digital tracks as you can see in her WIKI page so and 11 million albums ok what about the units I don't know please give me some info and I hope she will be in this list cuz I care not that she even pay attention to it loll. 77.44.232.141 (talk) 11:56, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

sales: albums: one of the boys 3 Million WW teenage fream 6 Million WW = 9 M and with approximated sales as showed in wiki 11 million singles: I kissed a girl 8 M hot & cold 6 M waking up in Vegas 4 M thinking of you 3 M 21 million and California gurls 8 M Teenage dream 6 M Firework 8,5 M ET 6 M Last Friday night 5 M the one that got away 4 M Peacock 1 M 38.5 m

and do the math

you'll find 70.5 million certificated units ... right?????? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.44.232.141 (talk) 12:34, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

– — ° ″ ′ ≈ ≠ ≤ ≥ ± − × ÷ ← → · §

Barbra Streisand

Harout, i hope you dont mind. I updated Barbra Streisand claim figure to 145m-records by using this source (http://www.ottawasun.com/2012/10/17/denis-armstrongs-tale-of-the-tape-bruce-springsteen-vs-barbra-streisand)

Need your advice and permission. thanks Politsi (talk) 02:42, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Christina Aguilera not in the bes selling music artists list??

hey guys, i'm a big fan of christina aguilera so that's why I post this topic. she was once in the best selling artist list when it was 50m+ sales, but these are just uncorrect. her album sales are 50m and her single sales are 52m which make her total sale 102m. it was also confirmed by her record label RCA record, here is the list they published. this list is wihout the sales of her latest album lotus ( which had low figures )

SINGLES

Genie In A Bottle - 7,508,000
What a Girl Wants - 4,267,000
Come On Over (All I Wants Is You) - 3,171,000
I Turn To You - 1,490,000
Lady Marmalade - 5,428,000
Nobody Wants To Be Lonely - 3,857,000
Beautiful - 4,626,000
Fighter - 2,640,000
Can not Hold Us Down - 2,523,000
Dirrty - 2,375,000
The Voice Within - 1,300,000
Car Wash - 1167
Is not No Other Man - 4,242,000
Hurt - 3,484,000
Slow Down Baby - 120,000
Candyman - 1,623,000
Keeps Gettin 'Better - 1,803,000
Not Myself Tonight - 834,000
WooHoo - 130,000
You Lost Me - 250,000

ALBUMS

Christina Aguilera - 17,200,000
My Reflection - 5,000,000
My Kind Of Christmas - 6,000,020 *
Stripped - 13,300,201
Back To Basics - 5,000,003
Keeps Gettin 'Better - 1,003,000
Bionic - 1,000,000 (not including digital sales)
Burlesque - 775,000 (not including digital sales)

Album sales - 50 million SINGLES SALES - 52 million TOTAL SALES - 102 million — Preceding unsigned comment added by Xdukckuxd (talk • contribs) 13:03, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

Agulera's certified sales are quite low (only 36.2 million) and don't suggest anything close to 100 million. Since she's begun charting in 1999, per the requirements of this list, her claimed figures need to be supported by 58% certified sales. Based on her available certified sales, she would be allowed to be listed with claimed figures of up to 62.5 million, but since our list starts from 75 million claims, she still has no place on this list. For the requirements, of this list see the second yellow box from the top on this talk-page.--Harout72 (talk) 15:37, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

Beyonce

I have read multiple sites (including Beyonce's own wikipedia page) that she has sold more than 100 million records. In the Beyonce/Pepsi partnership fact sheet is also listed that she has sold over a 100 million records (http://origin-qps.onstreammedia.com/origin/multivu_archive/PRNA/ENR/FX-MM26479-20121210-PEPSI_BEYONCE_FACT_SHEET.pdf).

Albums

Dangerously In Love 11,00,000
B'day 7,000,000
I am... Sasha Fierce 7,000,000
4 3,000,000

Singles

Work It Out 250,000
Crazy in Love 8,000,000
Baby Boy 1,200,000
Me, Myself and I 500,000
Naughty Girl 1,000,000
Check On It 1,800,000
Deja Vu 1,000,000
Ring The Alarm 700,000
Irreplaceable 7,000,000
Listen 2,000,000
Beautiful Liar 2,400,000
Get Me Bodied 550,000
Green Light 150,000
Amor Gitano 600,000
If I Were a Boy 5,100,000
Single Ladies 7,000,000
Halo 6,700,000
Diva 1,450,000
Sweet Dreams 2,900,000
Broken-hearted Girl 400,000
Video Phone 500,000
Ego 600,000
Telephone 6,000,000
Why Don't You Love Me 200,000
Honesty 1,000,000
Poison 140,000
Run The World 2,400,000
Best Thing I Never Had 2,900,000
Love On Top 2,300,000
Countdown 750,000
Party 550,000
Dance For You 460,000

___________________________ 29 million albums + 68.4 million singles = 97.4 million total records sold. That's close to 100 million, so could it be updated? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.60.158.111 (talk) 15:01, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

See this archived discussion.--Harout72 (talk) 15:27, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

But a few things aren't right in the certified sales document of Beyonce. For instance; Beyonce's discography page says that her album sales in the US are be 12.5 million instead of 10 million. Her UK sales 3.6 million instead of 2.2 million. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MartRoggen (talk • contribs) 11:43, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

Bear in mind that the 13 million in U.S. album sales cannot be 13 million U.S. certified album sales. In other words, unless the current sales (4.9 million units) for Dangerously in Love reaches shipment of 5 million units, it cannot get its 5x Platinum. That goes for all other Beyonce's albums. It works the same way for every music market, albums/singles/videos need to reach the next certification-level in order to get re-certified.--Harout72 (talk) 15:45, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

NOW ABBA IS LOWER?

Haven't abba sold to date an stimated of 370 millions to 400 millions of copies around the world, and keep selling at least one million per year?. Why now it appears that they only sold 200 millions? I don't believe that Mariah Carey, who only have success in the United States, have more album sales than a World Class successful act like ABBA, regarded as the most successful band of the 70s, except in the US of course. Nor Queen or Led Zeppelin have sold more copies than ABBA around the world. Milton Gt 06-04-2013

That is a fair point, but unless you have any sources which can validate a 370 million - 400 million claim, there isn't anything that can be done. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.174.117.6 (talk) 10:57, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Elton John 300m-records claim?

Hi Harout, are you still there?. I hope there no mistake from me which make you did not want to answer my question.

I still trying to find the reliable source for 300m-claim of John, but most of the source still insist him having sold between 200m-250m records.

But, today. I've found this source, from The Telegraph (Calcutta)/(http://www.telegraphindia.com/external/display.jsp?mode=details&id=30551)

If you read the article inside, it was said like this:

UK music industry revenues totalled £3.8 billion in 2010, with UK artists accounting for almost 12 per cent of global music sales. Britain is the second largest exporter of music in the world - of the eight artists who have sold over 300 million records worldwide, four of them are British - The Beatles, Elton John, Led Zeppelin and Queen.

Need your advice, is this reliable? could be used for John's 300m-claim?. thanks Politsi (talk) 06:39, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

I think we've seen this kind of a similar source before that talks about multiple artists' sales all at once. I don't think it's such a good idea to use that source because it also mentions sales about other artists that we cannot accept (300 for Queen for example), and it states that The Beatles have sold over 300 million records, when in fact their actual sales are way over 400 million. Let's wait until we come across a source that speaks of only Elton John's sales. It's no rush, Elton John's certified sales are not coming close to 300 million anytime soon, we still have time.--Harout72 (talk) 14:59, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

KATY PERRY

sales of her albums One of the boys 3 million Teenage Dream 6 million = 9 million sales of her singles what she is one of the best artist in single sales according to RIIA her certificated sales for singles as of 2011 is 29 million http://www.riaa.com/goldandplatinum.php?content_selector=top-artists-digital-singles

and her albums are certificated in hwe wiki page

^[1]

Teenage dream : Region Certification Argentina (CAPIF)[182] Gold Australia (ARIA)[183] 4× Platinum Austria (IFPI)[185] Gold Belgium (Ultratop)[186] Gold Canada (Music Canada)[187] 4× Platinum Chile (IFPI)[188] Gold Colombia (IFPI)[189] Platinum Denmark (IFPI Denmark)[190] Gold France (SNEP)[191] 2× Platinum Germany (BVMI)[192] Platinum Ireland (IRMA)[193] 2× Platinum Italy (FIMI)[194] Gold Mexico (AMPROFON)[195] 2× Platinum New Zealand (RIANZ)[196] 3× Platinum Philippines (PARI)[197] Platinum Switzerland (IFPI Switzerland)[198] Gold United Kingdom (BPI)[199] 3× Platinum United States (RIAA)[200] 2× Platinum Summaries Europe (IFPI)[201] Platinum GCC (IFPI Middle East)[202] Gold

. It has sold more than 6 million copies worldwide

one of the boys ^[2] Certifications[edit] Country Certification Australia 2× Platinum[84] Austria Platinum[85] Belgium Gold[86] Canada 2× Platinum[87] Denmark Gold[88] Europe Platinum[89] France 2× Platinum[90] Germany 3× Gold[91] Ireland Platinum[92] New Zealand Gold[50] Sweden Gold[93] Switzerland Gold[94] United Kingdom Platinum[95] United States Platinum[96]

that 29 million singles that needs update and let's say 8 million albums makes them 37 million certificated units and that my friend puts her in 75 million claimed sales right??

77.44.232.141 (talk) 19:16, 8 June 2013 (UTC)Cite error: There are <ref> tags on this page without content in them (see the help page).

Pet Shop Boys: over 100 million records sold

According to many sources, the Pet Shop Boys have sold more than 100 million records worldwide. However, they're not listed here in any category. Could you check, please?

http://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wiki100k/docs/Pet_Shop_Boys.html http://www.eurochannel.com/en/Pet-Shop-Boys-British-Music.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 181.47.181.122 (talk) 18:11, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

This list requires certain amount of certified sales depending on the year artists first charted. See the requirements in the second yellow box from the top on this talk-page. That said, for a claim as high as 100 million, Pet Shop Boys would need 31.9 million in certified sales (or 31.9%), whereas their current available certified sales are only 14.4 million, which can support claim of 45.4 million. But since this list starts from 75 million claims for which PSB would need at least 23.9 million in certified units, I don't believe PSB will get on this list anytime soon as they're off by almost 9.5 million in certified units.--Harout72 (talk) 18:51, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Page Needs Cleaning

I was looking though some of the "Claimed Sales" links and many of the artists on this page should be removed. For example: the Nirvana link for the 75 Million claimed sales is from a newspaper article about Paul McCartney and lists no citation for the "75 Million" sales. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Callumpennock (talk • contribs) 00:37, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

What do you mean? all the links in here is nearly perfect and new. Please look carefully that all links in this list is came from a very reliable and prestigious news source from all over the world.

And please be aware, that is not easy to find the reliable source to support the artist claim sales, we appreciated your advice but please contribute by giving a better source if you think the recent source in this list not good enough. Politsi (talk) 01:37, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Oasis: over 75 Million Sold

According to the Oasis Wikipedia page their albums and compilation albums alone have sold over 60Million copies. This does not include Singles and other album variants such as video albums. Many other artists are on the list with only 40Million certified sales but have claimed sales that are nearly double. I feel it is safe to say that if a band with 40M certified is on the list than a band with 60M certified should be as well. I am however finding very few records on albums sales for oasis due to their indie nature. So, more citation is needed for this to be officially added. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Callumpennock (talk • contribs) 00:31, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

This list requires certain amount of certified sales depending on the year artist in question has begun charting (see that info in the second yellow box from top on this talk-page). Since Oasis have begun charting in 1994, their claimed sales need to be supported by 48% certified sales. Their currently available certified units are 29.1 million. That is only enough for 60.6 million claim. This list, however, begins from 75 million sold units, so I don't think Oasis will be on this list in the near future. Just to let you know, Oasis will need to have 36 million in certified units for a claim as high as 75 million.--Harout72 (talk) 01:25, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Andrea Bocelli

Harout, can we move him to 80m-records list with this source (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/profiles/andrea-bocelli-every-day-they-told-me-this-is-too-dangerous-but-i-dont-care-8498718.html). It's only 5 million distant, beside his certification has been spread all over the world.

What do you think? thanks Politsi (talk) 05:16, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

Bocelli needs 38.4 million in certified units to be listed with 80 million claim. He currently has 36.3 million in certified units, actually, we don't use Dutch certified sales at the moment for any of the artist as NVPI's certifications aren't verifiable. So that leaves us with 34.6 million for Bocelli, meaning he is 3.8 million units short with his certified sales to be listed with 80 million claim.--Harout72 (talk) 05:30, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

Jean Michel Jarre

Harout, what do you think about him?. 80m-albums claim (http://www.khaleejtimes.com/citytimes/inside.asp?section=citytimes&xfile=/data/citytimes/2013/April/citytimes_April113.xml) thanks Politsi (talk) 10:32, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Very low certified sales, some 4 million certified units only.--Harout72 (talk) 15:43, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Do collaboration singles count ??

I was just wondering if the sales of a single where an artist is featured still counts towards their total record sales? for example, do the sales of "Telephone" by Lady Gaga still count towards Beyonce's total even though she is a featured artist? and same with "LOve the way you lie" by Eminem featuring Rihanna? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.174.117.6 (talk) 13:56, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

If your question is Do collaboration singles count towards Certified Sales, then the answer to that is: Yes, only if the artist featured on the single is the only one featured. In other words, if there is more than one featured artist, then the issued Gold/Platinum award will only be counted for the main artist. But all Gold/Platinum awards for such duo collaborations as the ones you brought up above, do count towards the certified sales of both artists.--Harout72 (talk) 15:23, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

LADY GAGA

Where is LADY GAGA?? She sold 67+ million singles + 26 million albums..... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.92.199.219 (talk) 16:16, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

Michael Jackson, 750 million units

So every source, the same ones that are considered reliable enough to state the Beatles and Elvis have sold 600 million album, states Michael Jackson sold 750 million units. One person disputes this so you guys believe these units are fictional/can not be counted? If I disputed the Beatles and Elvis figures, despite sources stating them to be accurate to the contrary, would you also alter their number?

This is ridiculous, give the guy his due. 2602:30B:825A:DBA9:D45B:B9C4:D558:2CD9 (talk) 17:40, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

Please clear your statement. Politsi (talk) 05:37, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

Is This Reliable?

Harout. Need your advice, is this source reliable for Pink Floyd (http://www.thisiskent.co.uk/Wish-Pink-Floyd-tribute-comes-Margate/story-16548150-detail/story.html#axzz2WklLMbXA)? thanks Politsi (talk) 11:18, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

It looks reliable (operated by Local World).--Harout72 (talk) 14:50, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

LADY GAGA?

Is there some reason why Lady Gaga isn't listed here, she sold 102M records after all for god sakes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Muglergaga (talk • contribs) 22:02, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

This archived discussion should help you understand how much certified sales Lady Gaga needs to have to be listed with 80 million claim.--Harout72 (talk) 23:01, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

She sold 100M records and even her website ladygaga.com published that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.221.83.112 (talk) 21:51, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

Bon Jovi

I believe that Bon Jovi now claim sales of 130 million plus, should they be moved up to the next section of this list? ^[3] 81.110.205.101 (talk) 23:15, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

Scorpions claim figure source

Harout, I will change the source for their claim figure, because their source at the moment from Billboard (http://www.billboard.com/biz/articles/news/1275008/echo-awards-honor-for-scorpions) sometimes missing and beside many times that an article published by Billboard Biz is look quite un-reliable.

I will change it with this (http://gulfnews.com/arts-entertainment/music/the-scorpions-to-rock-dubai-1.453579) it is one year older from previous source but looks more reliable.

If you feel objected, please remind me. thanks Politsi (talk) 01:45, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Queen claimed sales

Mynameisoscarjo (talk) 10:58, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Queen seems to have been moved down from 300 million to 200 million albums, even though many sources claim that Queen has sold 300 million or more albums.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1169307/For-time--Queen-Ten-great-hits-sensational-rock-band-todays-The-Mail-Sunday.html http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/465604/queen-getting-global-icon-nod-at-mtv-europe-awards http://english.ohmynews.com/articleview/article_view.asp?article_class=6&no=270701&rel_no=1 http://www.express.co.uk/news/showbiz/174486/Queen-planning-to-abandon-EMI http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/film/article636400.ece https://itunes.apple.com/us/movie/story-queen-mercury-rising/id550861062 http://www.80smusiclyrics.com/artists/queen.htm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwlE8dmRyko

What do you think? Shouldn't Queen be moved up again?

This list uses those claimed figures that are closest to artists' certified sales. See the last part of the lead where this is stated.--Harout72 (talk) 08:10, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

Updating Metallica sales

There have been two reports by The Star both claiming that Metallica sold 110 million albums worldwide. Please see if the sources are valid and if they are please update the charts. Here are the links: 1 and 2.--Вик Ретлхед (talk) 22:57, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

Your source which is a tabloid format newspaper speaks of albums only, we need a source (preferably news agency) that speaks of records (albums, singles, videos). Based on Metallica's certified sales, their overall records sales are based on albums, singles and videos, not just albums. Let me know if there is a news agency claiming 110 million records (not just albums), we'll update it.--Harout72 (talk) 23:14, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

I thought we can put 110 millions in place of 100 because that number is guaranteed for sure. It appears that the current number (100) is outdated.--Вик Ретлхед (talk) 23:47, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

The figure of 110 million is quite right if it said records (records stands for albums, singles, videos). However, the 110 million albums is inflated a bit as their certified album sales are only 76 million. So we should wait until some news agency publishes an article on Metallica using 110 million records claim. Besides for now we're ok as their certified sales are behind from their current claimed sales figure by some 13 million units. When their certified sales reach 97 or 98 million and there still isn't a source using the term records, then we'll be forced to go with one that says 110 million albums. But that's a last resort thing.--Harout72 (talk) 02:03, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

It is clear to me now. Thanks for the quick answer.--Вик Ретлхед (talk) 12:39, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

Rihanna?

I'm sorry, but I don't believe Rihanna has sold 71.5 million albums in the U.S. All sources list her U.S. sales under 20 million. 108.237.162.11 (talk) 04:36, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

Where'd you get the idea that the 71.5 million is for albums only? The figure is the combined total for 7.5 million certified albums and 64 million certified singles.--Harout72 (talk) 07:17, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

RIAJ Certification

Recently, RIAJ releases the archives of newsletter The Record between 1994 and 2002. It enables to cite older certification awards pre-2003, though the text was mostly written in Japanese language and difficult to read.

About the Japanese certification, the article does not indicate correct information at all. For instance, The Beatles have actually achieved MORE THAN 2 million certified-sales just in the 2000s, because they had reached double-million status with only one release (The Beatles 1).

The artist have had also multiple Gold/Platinum-certified releases in three decades. Here is the summary.

The Beatles (ザ・ビートルズ) (Certification History)
- - Live at the BBC (ザ・ビートルズ・ライヴ!! アット・ザ・BBC) Platinum(=200,000 units) ― December 1994[1]
  - 1962-1966 (The Red Album) (ザ・ビートルズ 1962年～1966年 (赤盤)) (1993 remaster) Double-Platinum(=400,000 units) ― December 1995[2]
  - 1967-1970 (The Blue Album) (ザ・ビートルズ 1967年～1970年 (青盤))(1993 remaster) Double-Platinum(=400,000 units) ― December 1995[3]
  - Anthology 1 (アンソロジー 1) Double-Platinum(=400,000 units) ― December 1995[4]
  - Anthology 2 (アンソロジー 2) Platinum(=200,000 units) ― March 1996[5]
  - Anthology 3 (アンソロジー 3) Platinum(=200,000 units) ― November 1996[6]
  - Yellow Submarine Songtrack (イエロー・サブマリン～ソングトラック) Platinum(=200,000 units) ― October 1999[7]
  - 1 DOUBLE-MILLION (=2,000,000 copies) ― December 2000[8]
  - Let It Be...Naked (レット・イット・ビー...ネイキッド) Double-Platinum (=500,000 copies) ― November 2003[9]
  - Love Platinum(=250,000 copies) ― November 2006 [10]
  - The Beatles Stereo Box Set (ステレオ・アルバムズ（ボックスセット）) Gold(=100,000 units) ― December 2009 [11]
  - 1962-1966 (The Red Album) (ザ・ビートルズ 1962年～1966年 (赤盤)) (2010 remaster) Gold(=100,000 units) ― December 2010 [12]
  - 1967-1970 (The Blue Album) (ザ・ビートルズ 1967年～1970年 (青盤)) (2010 remaster) Gold(=100,000 units) ― December 2010 [13]
- cumulative certified-sales (from availble and verifiable sources on the official RIAJ Website); 5.05 million units to date

Like this, the entire article is VASTLY missing sales figures officially certified by the RIAJ in the 1990s, as for MOST OF the artists on the list. --- --Fugreena (talk) 02:10, 11 July 2013‎ (UTC)

Thanks for the discussion. All certifications that you have posted above that start from 2003 onwards, are included in The Beatles' Japanese certified total sales, see my detailed file here for The Beatles. I also have 1 million units included for 1 from 1 Million Seller Database. But I'm afraid I'm unable to google-translate any of the PDF files you have posted above that includes certifications before 2003, I get this from Google: The page you requested was too large to translate. I guess I'm hoping we can work together on all of this, one artist at a time. I can provide you with my detailed file on here, and after you go over it, you can perhaps post the missing certifications with exact months as you've done above. What do you think? By the way, if you happen to know of a way I could translate those PDFs that Google won't translate, please let me know, I will get to all of them myself, it'll save you time. I also just noticed that you have:

December 1994 for the Platinum of Live at BBC, but your source is for February 1995
December 1995 for the Double-Platinum of ''1962-1966 (The Red Album), but your source is for February 1996

You have non-corresponding source for each month and year you've indicated. Why is that?--Harout72 (talk) 02:14, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

Look at the Page 5 of the PDF.[14] You will find the small headline as follows: "12月度「ゴールド・アルバム」他認定作品". It means "December's Gold-Albums And Other-certified Products" in English. Conventionally, certified awards are announced on The Record two months later from its accreditations.
The RIAJ's million-records list that you have cited as a source, is quite inadequate, because it dismiss the numbers of certification levels for each products. Not only The Beatles, but Celine Dion and the Carpenters also have a Multi-Million-certified album. In addition, Mariah Carey and B'z have more than two CDs which have shipped over 2 million copies. Cumulative sales stated on the article are utterly under-estimated. --- --Fugreena (talk) 09:18, 11 July 2013‎ (UTC)

Yes, I agree that the Million Seller Database includes levels of up to 1 million only, while those the same albums listed in database of The Record may have have 3x Platinum (1.2 million). I came across such an example yesterday. While B'z Green is listed as a 1 million seller in 2002, the database for The Record has 3x Platinum for it (1.2 million), I updated my file. But I definitely agree that all of the certifications in The Record database should be included. Please understand that I, as the main editor, have to know what's being included as I have detailed certified sales files for every artist on the list, and I have to update my file also for future references. I will for sure find a way to translate the PDF files for The Record. In the meantime, if you like to help out and post the certifications-awards and sources for some artists posted in January 1994-April 2002, feel free to do that if it's not too much work for you. Also, I was going to include the missing certifications for The Beatles, but the month/year you have indicated above do not correspond with the month/year of certifications' sources, and I'm unable to verify at the moment as I can't read Japanese at all.

In case you're interested in going over my files for B'z, Mariah Carey, Celine Dion.--Harout72 (talk) 14:34, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

As I mentioned above, accreditation are generally announced on the RIAJ newsletters two months after.[15] If you'd like to know the certifications of the particular year's November, for example, you have to refer to the newsletter of the following year's January. Please keep in your mind that above certified date (it's NOT the issued date of the newsletter) I posted are all COLLECT. For detailed certification history for each artists except for The Beatles, I'm going to provide the information in a new section (though it might takes some time).--Fugreena (talk) 05:41, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for posting the certifications. I somehow found a way to translate the files using Adobe Acrobat XI, it's a bit challenging as I first have to decompose the files and turn them into an editable version, but it gets the job done. I've already translated January-June of 1994. I will be adding each year's certifications at a time. It may take me some 10-15 days to go over all of them (1994 through 2002). For the artists below, I will try and include all of their certifications first.--Harout72 (talk) 07:14, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

I see only Gold certification for Anthology 3 (Source: January 1997).--Harout72 (talk) 00:18, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

[1] Arkell, Harriet (9 April 2013). [hthttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2306391/Lost-Beach-Boys-lyrics-music-photographs-expected-sell-10m-lying-Florida-storage-unit-years.html "Lost treasure trove of Beach Boys lyrics, music and photographs expected to sell for $10m after lying in storage unit for years"]. Daily Mail. Retrieved 13 April 2013.

[2] Murrels, Joseph (1978). The Book of Golden Disks. Barrie & Jenkins. ISBN 978-0214205125.

[3] ttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britney_Spears_discography

[4] "Week Ending Aug. 7, 2011. Songs: Place Your Bets". Nielsen SoundScan. Yahoo! Music.
britster (2013-05-05). "US Top 200 Songs in Digital Era". Nielsen SoundScan. BuzzJack.com. Retrieved 2013-05-08.

[5] ritster (2013-05-05). "US Top 200 Songs in Digital Era". Nielsen SoundScan. BuzzJack.com. Retrieved 2013-05-08.

[5] "Week Ending Aug. 19, 2012. Songs: Swift Makes Digital History". Nielsen SoundScan. Yahoo! Music.
britster (2013-05-05). "US Top 200 Songs in Digital Era". Nielsen SoundScan. BuzzJack.com. Retrieved 2013-05-08.

[7] ritster (2013-05-05). "US Top 200 Songs in Digital Era". Nielsen SoundScan. BuzzJack.com. Retrieved 2013-05-08.

[6] ttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teenage_Dream_(Katy_Perry_album)

[7] :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_of_the_Boys_(Katy_Perry_album)

[8] ttp://www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/showbiz/jon-bon-jovi--still-rocking-the-boat-in-roaring-fifties-233419.html

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