Talk:List of association football families/Archive 1

This is an archive of past discussions about List of association football families. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Restyling

I'm working on a version of this page more similar to the List of family relations in the National Hockey League, you can find it here. Let me know if I can go on. --necronudist 10:01, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Modric & Vidigal

Any source about Luka Modric's relation with Mark Viduka? Who deleted Luis Vidigal here? I have a source about he & his brother (Lito) in World Soccer magazine in 2000, but I searched in their website, there's no article about it Ario ManUtd 08:00, 23 March 2008 (UTC)--

Mihaylov

If Borislav's son is Nikolay, then he must has been married twice. Nikolay's mother can't be Maria Petrova, since Maria was born in 1975 & Nikolay was born 13 years later. It's quite certain that Nikolay's mother is Borislav's first wife. Any infos about these? Ario ManUtd 16:00, 2 July 2008 (UTC)--Ario ManUtd (talk) 09:14, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

She has only one daughter. --necronudist (talk) 09:49, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Split

This article is now becoming impossibly large (WP:SIZE), even with this poor quality of referencing. I think it should be split up by country. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 21:03, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Edit request on 13 July 2013

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Karl-Heinz Forster and Bernd Forster should be added to the famous footballing families list. Both played professionally and both were West German internationals. Rehedgehog2 (talk) 06:39, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

Hi, do you have a reliable source that confirms that? Giant Snowman 09:06, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

Not done: This page is no longer protected. Subject to consensus, you should be able to edit it yourself.-- TOW talk 06:13, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

Edwards - Aus

I've added former socceroo Alistair Edwards as the father of Ryan and Cameron Edwards. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.25.109.196 (talk) 08:42, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

Stuart and Ray Pearce

Would it be worth adding Stuart Pearce and his brother Ray, who was a linesman? Here's a source of a game that saw Ray "line" (is that the right word?) and Stuart play, for WP:V purposes. I know it doesn't fit the criteria, but I don't imagine this was in anyone's mind when the criteria was determined. [1] Malpass⁹₃! (what I've been ^up to/_drop me a ^___) 23:46, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

The brother isn't notable, so I would say no. Giant Snowman 08:32, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

Article overhaul

I am trying to remove all non-notable and unreferenced entries, however this is a slow process seeing as the article is browser-crashingly long. I therefore propose that we tighten up the inclusion criteria (to families where every named member is notable, not just one) and we should consider the format as well - perhaps a table would work best? Giant Snowman 16:03, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

You took out a lot of obviously notable ones though, which were probably referenced at the articles themselves! Eg. the Veron clan. Clavdia chauchat (talk) 19:57, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

If there is no reliable source present here then they are not referenced, are they? Giant Snowman 09:21, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

I am going to remove all entries that do not have at least two blue-linked, notable family members - speak now or forever hold your peace... Giant Snowman 09:53, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

You'll be taking out legitimate WP:red links and there's no consensus to change the inclusion criteria. Clavdia chauchat (talk) 18:56, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

Of course there's no consensus, that's why I'm seeking input here before making such bold moves. Giant Snowman 19:07, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

If the redlink is there because there is no notability, then IMO there shouldn't be inclusion in this article. I agree with GiantSnowman that there should be at least two notable people to make this list. Shqipnia apo Shqiperia (talk) 19:21, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

Redlinks are for people with notability but without an article. I'd insist on one bluelink, at least one notable family member (red or blue), and proper referencing at this article, not elsewhere. If you want to make it less browser-crashing, remove the endless MoS-non-compliant flags: you do not need a white oblong with a red cross on it next to the name of every entry in a section headed England... A list of names without the flags loads in no time flat. Though with inline refs, it'll slow right down again. The other alternative is splitting off by country, where there are enough entries to warrant it. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 19:36, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

The whole article needs splitting up and making more accessible (but that wasn't the question). In my opinion only notable people with notable footballing relatives should be on the list. Red-links are a bit of a sidetrack imo if there are people who are notable but don't have an article. => Spudgfsh (Text Me!) 19:29, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

Notables, in. Notable and a notable subject which is shown as a redlink, in - as legitimate redlinks do count for something. Notable and a non-notable subject which is shown as a redlink, out. And no flags (!).--Egghead06 (talk) 19:41, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

As an aside, just checking some of the English entries, the supposed notable but red-linked family member is often not even mentioned in the notable's article. Many, like Carlton Cole's brother play non-league football only.--Egghead06 (talk) 19:53, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

@Struway2: We may assume faith on redlinks and suppose that they are notable, but then some of them aren't. Why insist on putting redlinks in this article, when notability is not even established yet? Notability can always be challenged even after the article is created, let alone before. Shqipnia apo Shqiperia (talk) 20:07, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

I'd expect that for a redlinked person, the cited source would verify both family relationship and notability. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 20:14, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

The inclusion criteria allows non-notable entries by the second line - 2.a second member must be a professional player or capped by a national team on the U-17 level or above. This allows U-17 players, who by such games would not be notable, to be on this list. Maybe this should be tightened?--Egghead06 (talk) 20:30, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

It definitely needs tightening up, hence why I started this thread. I still believe there should be at least two already created articles in a 'family' to merit inclusion. Giant Snowman 08:34, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

The format is horrible and really difficult to read - I notice there's a suggestion at the top of this talk page to restyle it (suggestion made in 2007 so there obviously wasn't much traction) but it seems valid. The proposed style used in the hockey article would seem preferable. Bladeboy1889 (talk) 11:13, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

I'm talking about the general tabular style rather than a slavish copy btw, how it would be split is open to debate but I'd stick with by country. Bladeboy1889 (talk) 11:18, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

The page is way too long as it as well - as it will continue to grow it should be diffused somehow - by continent maybe? Bladeboy1889 (talk) 12:15, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

We should remove entries with fewer that 2 notable players before complaining about length. Giant Snowman 12:25, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

GiantSnowman, this was a popular and successful article before you took ownership with fairly catastrophic results. Edits like this smack of WP:NOEFFORT. Why not find a reference yourself instead of reverting on sight? Clavdia chauchat (talk) 11:50, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

What WP:OWNERSHIP? I'm pretty sure I was the one who has started a number of discussions on this very talk page to seek consensus for edits...so other than your ignorance and/or short memory in that regard, you also seem blisfully oblivious to WP:BURDEN and WP:BLP. Giant Snowman 12:03, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

See WP:CRYBLP. Do you really think it is 'contentious' that, for example, Sabin Ilie and Adrian Ilie are brothers? Of course you don't. But if you did, why not expend some small effort yourself to improve the article? If you are serious about improving it that would seem a better method than unexplained knee-jerk reverting. Especially with these sorts of edits which look to be constructive and made in good faith, albeit unreferenced. Clavdia chauchat (talk) 12:54, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

No, I do actually - especially as the claims are unreferenced at both the brother's articles as well. You obviously don't understand how serious BLP policy atcually is. Giant Snowman 12:59, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

If it's contentious then type "Adrian Ilie brother" into google, take one of the thousands of sources then add it to the article(s). I'd say that's the correct way to do it instead of lazy and inappropriate reverting. Perhaps you think that's beneath you, since you appear to have appointed yourself the Sepp Blatter of wikiproject football? You've completely wrecked this article, not through laziness, but because you want to change the criteria/make it a different article altogether. Instead of defacing this article, why don't you start your own in userspace or whatever and then see if it ends up being any good? There might even be room for it alongside this article, as long as you don't make its inclusion criteria too stupid or arbitrary. Clavdia chauchat (talk) 13:25, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

Jimbo talking about unreferenced information back in 2006 - "it should be removed, aggressively, unless it can be sourced." Your accusations about my apparent ownership (of this article and now an entire WikiProject), combined with your asserition that I have "ruined/wrecked" an article by removing unreferenced information about living people, are ridiculous and show how little you actually know or care about our policies and guidelines. Giant Snowman 13:47, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

"Unless it can be sourced" is the key part of that. Did you try? I reckon this stuff can be sourced – easily – but you just can't be bothered. Clavdia chauchat (talk) 14:22, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

I source what I can, but I simply don't have the time to chase around after every IP or poor editor who adds unreferenced infomation to Wikipedia. There's a reason why WP:BURDEN exists. Giant Snowman 14:34, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

Yet you seem to have time to chase round after them unthinkingly hitting revert. Without caring if good faith contributions are good, bad or indifferent?! Lazy, sloppy, pathetic. It's an abuse of WP:BLP but you know that. I think you need to go back to admin school. Clavdia chauchat (talk) 14:56, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

Yawn. Rather than wasting both our time with your baseless accusations and personal attacks, why didn't you bother to reference the information yourself? Giant Snowman 15:07, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

Distance of relationship

Some of these players seem a bit distantly related. Things like cousins, uncles, son-in-law. Should we just keep it to the 7 closest (spouse/father/mother/sister/brother/son/daughter)? --SuperJew (talk) 17:04, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

This is a tricky question. Limiting it in such a way can keep the page tidy and at an appropriate length. However, some players have been famous for being related in such a way. For example, Ian Harte and his uncle Gary Kelly were together in a Leeds United side which was one of the finest in Europe, and also played together at the World Cup. So that's not a case of relatives being separated by decades in time and a wide difference in quality of career – they played at the same time at the same high level. '''tAD''' (talk) 20:47, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

Maybe have it as a base line then, unless specifically famous and notable? --SuperJew (talk) 05:00, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

Tombides brothers

Hey,

I was wondering regarding the Australian brothers Dylan and Taylor Tombides. While they don't fit into the letter of the guideline on this page (international footballer or famous manager), I think Dylan is notable after his story with testicular cancer and eventual and unfortunate death, followed by the launch of the "Dylan Tombides DT38" charity foundation. His brother, Taylor, plays now for West Ham and has dedicated goals in memory of Dylan.

@Macosal: @GiantSnowman: @Clavdia chauchat: @Spudgfsh: @Egghead06: @Struway2: @Bladeboy1889: @The Almightey Drill: (any others who wish to join): I think you guys can have a nice, pleasant discussion about it. I'm flying overseas tomorrow morn, so I won't be able to participate in this one much, but I'm sure you'll manage :) here's a reference too so you don't have to work to hard ;).

--SuperJew (talk) 10:13, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

Taylor Tombides is a youth team player (so far) although he has had a loan with Canvey Island. Don't think that level really marks you as notable (!).--Egghead06 (talk) 10:19, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

Agreed, shouldn't be listed - in fact the list as a whole needs overhauling but that's on the long-term hitlist... Giant Snowman 12:36, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

Ok. I see your point currently - Taylor is not a professional footballer (yet), and WP is not a crystal ball. As a hypothetical now, do you think if Taylor will be a professional footballer but not internationally capped, they should be listed?

And also GiantSnowman, if you noticed I started doing a bit of an overhaul. I cleaned up the flags and multi-nationalities (the page loads so much quicker now :) ) and also cleaned-up until Faroe Islands (removed families not notable under the current guideline listed or who are unreferenced, added references if I could, added notes for people who hold multi-nationalities). But then I didn't have time with my preparations for overseas and I'll only be back here in September. Till then you people are of course welcome to pick up the tab.

--SuperJew (talk) 12:57, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

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The Charlton/Milburn connection

The mother of Bobby and Jack Charlton was the cousin of Jackie Milburn. Is that worth a mention or is that too distant? [2][3] Nzd (talk) 14:32, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

Sounds to me a bit distant.. I'd prob bring it up at WT:FOOTY to get more opinions (not sure how many people have this page on their watchlist) --SuperJew (talk) 15:36, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

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External links modified (January 2018)

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