Talk:List of U.S. state tartans

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What to do with this list

I've started to go through the various state insignia lists one state at a time. I've got an idea of how to improve each list except this one. Unless someone wants to take it on as a project to get non copyright violating, GFDL compliant images of all the tartans, I don't see the point to the list unless we have an WP:EL violating list of external links. I don't imagine we could get the images in using a fair use rationale, could we? Has anyone got any better ideas here? —Elipongo (Talk|contribs) 06:00, 22 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I was planning to do a bunch of research and provide citations for all of these, but I was having browser trouble that day and after a few hours of work I gave up. I'd like to try again this weekend. If the links are citations and all link to government sites, that's not going to be a violation of WP:EL, though I had planned to change to layout of the table so the links were in a References section in the bottom, so that ought to clear up any lingering doubt. I don't know much about images--the fair use regs baffle me--but it would be nice to have them if we can get 'em. Thanks for working on the insignia lists. If you have any questions about the Oregon ones, be sure to get in touch. Katr67 15:45, 22 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I added a link to the information about the Texas Bluebonnet tartan on the Texas Scottish Heritage Society website. Hopefully that's official enough. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.161.247.11 (talk) 15:30, 28 March 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Positively we need citations for the tartans, but just having links to images of the tartans makes for a pretty non-informative article and makes comparison of the various tartans difficult. I'm hoping that someone more artistic than myself can reproduce images of the tartans similarly to the reproduction of the state flags. I've posted a request at Wikipedia:Requested pictures#Geography as well as adding the appropriate template to this page. —Elipongo (Talk|contribs) 10:53, 26 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If you have the sett, you can plug it in to my designer and get a public domain image of it. I'm not a wikipedia power-user, but please email me if you need any sort of specific disclaimer about the image output of my program to put the images into the public domain (or whatever free-distribution license works better). — NealePickett 2008-08-27 19:57 (UTC).

You linked your own website as a reference for the existence of the New Mexico tartan, but i can't find a good web reference that this is indeed recognised by the state (like a government/state website). There seemed to have been several different groups in the 90s trying to get their version recognised by the state, but i can't find out if the state actually recognised any version. Also where did you get the thread count from?--Celtus (talk) 10:02, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

All I can offer for now is a scan of the proclamation by the secretary of state (on the linked-to page). I don't think it was ever codified into state law that this is the state's tartan: it's only been "recognized". Maybe when I retire I'll take on making it legal. I got the thread count from counting threads in a fabric swatch. The thread count, alas, was not included in the proclamation; although it does mention that the pattern was registered with the Scottish Tartan Authority. NealePickett (talk) 06:05, 14 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Government Images

Hi, I stumbled upon your photo request, and on that tangent, discovered that MY STATE HAS A TARTAN! And by that measure, let me just say that this is a very cool, very useful article.

While I do not have the resources to take pictures of all the official tartans in the US, it struck me kind of odd that we could not get good currently "free" images of them, and if not, it seems like fair-use would be a no-brainier. I mean, many of these are official state symbols passed by the state government.

So, to make a specific question, take this one: [1] found at [2]

Does work by the state library of North Carolina fall into the scope of government work covered by the PD-USGov? I did read somewhere that it was actually designed by a Scottish person, which could complicate things and prove me wrong, but I maintain the assertion that it would be silly for us not to be able to use it.

I'll be bold in a bit and try it, but it should work, right? If not, it'll give me another administrator to chew out. -Theanphibian ^{(talk • contribs)} 05:43, 17 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Strike what I said about problems because the tartan was designed by someone other than a government worker for North Carolina, that's not the issue, we're looking for the copyright info for the picture not the item itself. The president I keep seeing over an over again is that people drab on for ever about the rights of the photographer, but completely don't bother with copyrights that pertain to the contents of pictures. And taking about presidents, if This image flies on Wikipedia, fear not, for we have nothing to worry about. -Theanphibian ^{(talk • contribs)} 06:37, 17 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately, the government of the State of North Carolina is a different entity from the United States Federal Government. While the works of the Federal Government are in the Public Domain, the works of the various states typically are not. I really do appreciate your being bold and uploading/posting the image, however you should ask for the image to be speedily deleted since it is a copyright violation. What I figure might work is people taking photos of displays at their state houses or of marchers wearing the tartan during parades and such. With Independence day coming up, maybe some folks can get some good pix! —Elipongo (Talk contribs) 08:56, 17 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wow, so the government tag really won't work. It still seems ridiclous to me that we wouldn't be able to use it. Other tartans on Wikipedia are copyright by a company and use a short fair use rationale, see the above example, so I'm going to try using the fair-use tag. I could still be confused by the fair use of the pattern versus picture taking fair use, but the previous example doesn't mention anything about the picture taking. Granted, this could mean that either that upload was done incorrectly, or that the uploader in that case actually took the picture him/her self, but once again, that would leave me completely confused as to why there's not a release tag on it for that work. This is a perfect example of everything I'm having trouble swallowing in regards to Wikipedia copyright policies, so I appreciate you bearing with me in this manner. -Theanphibian ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:11, 17 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I too have wondered whether fair use might apply for this list, see the discussion before this one. I thought then that the answer was no, but now that I've been following around and picking up the pieces from BetacommandBot and getting more knowledgeabe about Fair Use, I think we might be able to swing it... I'm going to go and ask at WP:AN/FURG and see what they think- if any article ever needed images, this is the one! —Elipongo (Talk contribs) 15:12, 17 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, the post is up. Here's the link if anyone's interested Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/FURG#List of U.S. state tartans. —Elipongo (Talk contribs) 15:24, 17 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Great! Thanks for your hard work, we'll get to the bottom of this. I see your points, and what people were saying earlier in this talk page, so I understand that it could go either way. But currently I still think there are many unanswered questions about it, and the important thing is that it was done the right way. You mentioned in your post on the admin noticeboard that we may need to include more text in the article to be sure that it the pictures are used to illustrate a subject. I don't consider this to be a big hurdle at all, and should be done just for the sake of improving the article. Look at my last edit and tell me if it seems to be productively working towards those means. -Theanphibian ^{(talk • contribs)} 03:24, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think your edit could be the way to go. I've moved my question over to Wikipedia talk:Non-free content#List of U.S. state tartans because it was being ignored where I had first asked it... —Elipongo (Talk contribs) 05:39, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Oregon

Oregon does not have an official state tartan, though one was designed and SJR 31 (2003) attempted to make it official. Per this legislative history, SJR never passed out of committee. See ORS 186 for a list of official state emblems. Promoters of this tartan online claim that it was made official, but they need to speak with their legislators about reintroducing the legislation. The governor's proclamation making April 12, 2003 Oregon Tartan Day, like all proclamations, is ceremonial and not legally binding. Proclamations are easy to get. I have nothing against Oregon's tartan--it's lovely--but it should not be added to a list of official state tartans until it is added to the Oregon statutes like all the other state symbols. Katr67 (talk) 22:32, 25 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've noticed that this kind of thing is a problem with wikipedia. People adding flags and things into articles at will. Problem is a couple websites [3], including the Scottish Register of Tartans, state that the tartan is "The official State of Oregon tartan" [4]. But i've also noticed the register states more than a few mistakes in their descriptions, and that the person who registers the tartan actually gets to write the description themselves. There are more than a few really boneheaded claims about clans in some tartan descriptions. Anyways, the link you gave [5] seems to show in 2007 it was not a state symbol.--Celtus (talk) 09:28, 26 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Wisconsin Tartan

Here's the info on the Wisconsin tartan.

http://www.standrewssocietymilwaukee.org/page4.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.177.114.46 (talk) 18:26, 30 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Arizona Tartan

The color swatch displayed for the Arizona tartan is incorrect. See: http://www.tartanregister.gov.uk/tartanDetails.aspx?ref=111 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sullyicious (talk • contribs) 05:47, 18 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hawaii Tartan

Two issues here. Hawaii's tartan has not been officially adopted, either by Act, Resolution or Proclamation. It HAS been recognized (with thread count and ITI number) by the 2008 Hawaii State Legislature in a Tartan Day Resolution (HCR81 HD1) http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2008/lists/getstatus2.asp?billno=HCR81 so its status with respect to this list is somewhat unclear.

The second issue is related to the color of the tartan. When the tartan was originally designed, the reference work used to assign the color codes listed T as a darkish brown - but that seems to have changed, possibly as a result of the merger of the Scottish Tartan Authority and the Scottish Tartans World Register into the Scottish Register of Tartans. As a result, any tartans generated with the T code do not properly represent the original brown. Additionally, the original swatch was woven in cotton, which has somewhat brighter dyes than the traditional wool. As a result, there are two different color palettes used. The wool palette can be seen at http://www.tartansauthority.com/tartan-ferret/display/5163/hawaiian-district&tartan_name=hawaiian&tartan_name_search= which also gives appropriate color codes for the wool representation. The cotton palette is used in cotton and poly-blend fabrics, and can be seen at http://www.mauiceltic.com/hawaii-tartan.htm (The preceding link is to a history page on a commercial website, but I haven't found a correct representation on a non-commercial site. I've read through the guidelines, but I'm not certain as to the protocol regarding linking to not-directly-commercial pages on commercial websites.) In any case, both palettes were selected and approved by the designer as being true to the intended colors.

Since T no longer codes the darkish brown, the displayed swatch is incorrect. —Da(s)hinhi (talk) 19:41, 3 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I've allowed it in the list since an HCR is legislation, unlike a proclamation, which as noted above in the section about Oregon, is ceremonial but not legal. But I agree Hawaii's status is a bit unclear. Most of the other state tartans have been placed in state statutes, however, making them somewhat more "official". Here is the difference between a proclamation, a resolution, and an act in Alaska. Each state is a little different. Valfontis (talk) 06:50, 21 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Criteria for Table Inclusion

User:Valfontis did some excellent work in cleaning up this table earlier in the year so that it only includes tartans which have "been adopted by law by their respective state legislatures as official U.S. state symbols." But I see that at least one user has already started to add proposed or other non-official tartans back into the table, i.e., Oregon's bill that never made it out of committee. I don't necessarily think it's bad for this article to have this sort of information--that some were proposed and never went anywhere--because maybe that will spur someone to take up the cause. A user might legitimately look to Wikipedia to answer a question like: "Has my state ever considered one?" At the same time, I think it is a good idea to keep the main table clean and stick with only officially adopted tartans (I removed the info about Oregon for now) and place information about proposed state tartans elsewhere. Maybe at the end of the article? Thoughts? Wantonlife (talk) 14:49, 11 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hi there, thanks for pinging me, I haven't been around. (And thanks for the kudos! Though the table actually needs some more cleanup and sourcing.) As you might guess, I'm for keeping the list "official", since all the other lists for this type are for official symbols. Some of the U.S. lists do talk about "also rans" (see List of Oregon State symbols) but since this list is lightly trafficked and seldom watched, I think we should keep it to official symbols. But if we want to do something like this, we need to include every state's failed effort, and not relegate the info to the footnotes because who looks there? I don't! :) Valfontis (talk) 05:33, 18 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Wantonlife and Valfontis: My purpose for adding back the row for Oregon was so that well-meaning editors wouldn't come in and fill up the table with illegitimate tartans. I did just that earlier this year based on a lot of erroneous information published by the Scottish Register of Tartans. With rows that say "State x does not have an official state tartan", those well-meaning editors might be headed off before they create a lot of clean-up work. Ninjatacoshell (talk) 02:32, 12 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

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Bad Link to Michigan Image

The link associated with the Michigan thumbnail should be (I think)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:State_of_Michigan_tartan.jpg

not

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:FilePath/State_of_Michigan_tartan-475x300.png

which, when followed, reroutes to

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Redirect/file/State_of_Michigan_tartan-475x300.png

Please fix. Thanks. 2603:7000:9906:A91C:1C64:8308:33BC:E2D6 (talk) 07:56, 13 April 2021 (UTC)Christopher L. Simpson[reply]

State of Oregon Tartan was made official 2017. It's time to up this. I think it was SR-13.

Up date the status of the state of the State of Oregon Tartan. Check, HR-13, 2017. The State voted it in, and it was enrolled. 2600:6C55:600:17BE:91AD:EA73:1AFF:3B8F (talk) 13:38, 15 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Status of the "State of Oregon" has changed to Official.

In 2017 Oregon adopted the Tartan official. Oregon State's HR13 made our Tartan official and included the Tartan as a State symbol. It was also added to the "Oregon Blue Book". Look it up... Thank you, Robert Harding MacGregor 2600:6C55:600:17BE:C44E:E3BE:EF57:F06E (talk) 00:36, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]