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Talk:List of The Adventures of Robin Hood episodes

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The episode list

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Episode 1 is credited on the network dvd as Eric Heath. Bruce Seton is uncredited as Will Scatlock: Episode 2 is credited as Eric Heath and Ian Larkin. Bruce Seton is uncredited again. Bernadette O'Farrell first appearance as Maid Marian is episode 3 (Dead or Alive) but she is uncredited. In episode Guest for the Gallows at 19m 08sec the sherrif sign his name A WHEATLY on a document. I have also altered the minstral song on the first two episodes. Have not checked any more.REVUpminster (talk) 11:00, 4 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

REV, I watched all Mill Creek epsiodes last year to serve as background preparation in working on this currently. I have been going through them again presently and have been diligently working on this. I have both Mill Creek and Network DVD's. The column headers I noted as appearing on screen, so that the director would represent "Directed By" in the episodes, and Screenplay would represent the screenplay adaptor as physically seen in the episode (not the writer). This way the public can actually feel confident that the listing shows actually what they are seeing during viewing. There is much more work as you can see needs to be done. Footnote notations are going to be needed. Currently I am using the information provided on screen from the actual episodes by actually watching them and not the back of the DVD cover cards of the Network DVD's which seem to have discrepancies. What was Network's source for the info? Or IMDB? IMDB seems to use the info from the Network DVD cards. Could some of this be alternate names used during the McCarthy problem? If so, notations should be made with sourcing. I have tried to be very careful but I am catching the occasional typo I have done or reevaluating some of what I thought I heard on the minstrel songs the first time around. Thank you for doing certain corrections. Another user 81.111.127.132 has also been recently contributing in the article(s) parts. I am utilizing the existing table as created I think by user Lee M. when the pre-bifurcated article was created which utilizes a template. Perhaps a few extra columns might be helpful in this case if you know of a template or process for automated conversion for this. It would be nice to have at least 4 more columns (a master episode column, another one for the writer which could source cite the Network cards, another one for notes, and perhaps a production number). I will begin watching some Network episodes this weekend. If actual discrepancies in credit listings occur this could present an interesting problem. For now I have oriented the listing to reflect the Mill Creek set so that at least the Wikipedia user has some basis to work with that is accurate. I will see what develops. This of course is not an overnight project and will take some time. I defintely noticed the Sheriff signing situation a few months ago. Something worth a notation at some point. Most episodes still need work now on summaries that do not copy IMDB or the Network cards. I will keep working on this. Feel happy to contribute too - - 143 episodes is a bit of work. One other thing to also point out is there is a problem towards the end of all of the episodes - some of the Mill Creek episode numbers do not coincide with ITV dates/order on the Network DVD's. If the Network issue is correct then some of the episodes will need to be changed to correctly show the broadcast order with appropriate notations made showing a possible Mill Creek error or differing US broadcast order. For the moment until I get further along I am utilizing the Mill Creek order, as also referenced in the footnote. Thor Dockweiler (talk) 02:40, 5 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
When editing in the episode entries please note that the template used has the fields defined as "writer", etc. Altering this will cause the table to be corrupted. One should note the changed column header as what is being put in the field and utilize the field "word" as a guide/position not a requirement for the text input concerned. Thor Dockweiler (talk) 04:04, 5 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
All date entries are ITV and are associated with the correct titles per the Network cards. The three episodes involved as to order number are 123, 125, and 126. The order used is that by Mill Creek in the left column. If the air broadcast dates are correct for Network then all episodes from 123 thru 143 will have to be renumbered/reordered, with appropriate footnote notations. This requires some research. Thor Dockweiler (talk) 04:50, 5 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have only the first series by network and they are advert free. I do not think the advertisements should be mentioned within the list as they are only seen in America and not in other countries. The end song is present in all episodes except The Highlander where a non vocal theme was used. There are discrepencies between The actual episodes and network card and the ITV book of Adventure. The end titles of each episode should be used from the network dvd as if the cast for that episode is correct so the rest should be. An editor has put dates on the Robin Hood talk page and they look alright. ATV london started on 24 sept 1955. This was the first itv area to broadcast so any earlier date or a mon-fi date must be wrong.REVUpminster (talk) 08:26, 5 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • To keep the episode list relevent to all. The mill creek DVDs should mention the sponsored adverts and alternate titles in the dvd section just as the occasional french titles in network's dvd's should only be in the dvd section.REVUpminster (talk) 11:39, 5 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Have changed airdates on episode list for the BFI dates, this also changes the episode order.81.111.127.132 (talk) 07:06, 4 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • Hello 81.111. you have done a very good job. I shall check it but the BFI order is certainly logical. i'll check the dates as whereas it did start on Sundays I am sure it moved to saturday. I will take out all the reference to wildroot. should not be there and sponsorship is covered on the main page. I have an old book and even that disagrees with BFI on some episodes.REVUpminster (talk) 08:18, 4 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Still not quite correct as per BFI listREVUpminster (talk) 16:48, 4 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Right, forgot to put 'Will Scarlet' and 'Ladies of Sherwood' in right order - will change. 'A Village Wooing' is placed in 'series 2' with right tx date, out of BFI order but grouped with the 'series' it is part of. 'The Salt King' is placed in 'series 3' with right tx date, the rpt date listed at BFI, (1st tx date listed must be in error as 15 Sept 1956 places it at start of 'series 2'), out of BFI order but grouped with series it is part of. 'The Scientist' is placed in 'series 2' with right tx date, out of BFI order but grouped with series it is part of. 'The Prisoner' is placed in 'series 1' with right tx date, out of BFI order but grouped with series it is part of. Re-'The Goldmaker' & 'Isabella', wasn't sure what to do here as they are the last two in BFI order but are 'series 2' eps dates are for 1961 so left dates as before, should I put them at end of series 4? 'Errand of Mercy' series 1 not on BFI order list so left as before, what should be done with this one? Any advice would be welcome REV.81.111.127.132 (talk) 09:37, 5 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Writers

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On episode 1 of network the closing titles identifies Eric Heath. On the network card it identifies Lawrence McClellan. As i have found they are the same person so I would think Eric Heath should be used. I have not seen the mill creek dvds but the network set must be more reliabe a source.REVUpminster (talk) 19:14, 6 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hi REV, here's part 1's end titles with McClellan writer credit here.81.111.127.132 (talk) 17:24, 8 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • I watched it and the only difference from the network dvd was the writers name the credit order of the gatekeeper and the gatekeepers wife, chris instead of christopher for for the assistant director and the order of the production people. It was also An Officials film instead of an ITP production. This was used on american broadcasts and not the rest of the world and this did look like the 16mm print. The only answer is to put Eric Heath aka Lawrence MacCellan but this is covered in the writers notes although looking at the fan site they have other names for different episodes.. It looks like every name is a psuedonum for more than one writer or combination of writers except Ralph Smart. It's a nightmare. The Mill Creek dvd credits, to me is discredited.REVUpminster (talk) 18:09, 8 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, all writer/director credits on the episode list here are taken from the on-screen end titles on the Network DVD sets, apart from the three with french end titles which have no credits for writer/director so Network card info used. Probably best to stick to these, and expand the writers notes with any pseudonyms we can find. Interesting to see the alternate american credits though.81.111.127.132 (talk) 22:32, 8 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hi REV, when compiling the crew list, due to your comments above, spotted that only the first series and 22 eps of series two on Network DVD's have ITP production end titles, 17 of series two are Official films production credits as are 33 of series 3 and 23 of series 4.81.111.127.132 (talk) 00:02, 11 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Dates

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someone at Network has made a blunder because the dates on the card would be a monday and ATV did not broadcast in the midlands until February 1956 The BFI dates look more reliable for the first series but as they go on they are all days of the week probably as more ITV regions came on air. It may never be possible to find the correct dates.REVUpminster (talk) 19:14, 6 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • Having done some checking, the few episodes listed at BFI for days other than Sunday (I think its only six eps), particularly Friday's, would appear to be TXed by Associated Rediffusion at about 7pm, so still London broadcast dates, but first run Rediffusion London. Weather you want to make a note of that or not I don't know?, accessing the Times Digital Archive may be useful to finding any corrections to the ATV London tx dates, if you can find someone to do that it may clear up any errors or omissions, but probably no episode titles will be listed.81.111.127.132 (talk) 04:13, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • The article already lists that ITV dates and broadcast order are different in the regions. I do not think you can do much more.REVUpminster (talk) 09:11, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

UK & US episodes (DVD) - Definite differences in credit listings

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I have reviewed a few episodes in the UK Network set. Incredibly, there are variations in some of the credits between that set and the US Mill Creek set. Most interesting. It may be too confusing on the eyeballs to note on each line as currently done. It would be best to add additional columns, one for the UK and one for the US. I reviewed all US Mill Creek episodes and the listing done is accurate for the US onscreen listings. I will now review all UK Network episodes. Thor Dockweiler (talk) 23:40, 9 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • If the cast list is correct then the other credits should be correct. Network do have access to the original prints. The confusion comes about by the use of false names. I am sure most of the writers names are false. I have managed to identify three. It is a British series so should use British sources. REVUpminster (talk) 10:08, 10 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • Are MillCreek reliable? I understand their dvds of Sherlock Holmes (1954 TV series) have identical credits on many episodes. Over here we see them on Film24 along with Dragnet, I Love Lucy and Bonanza.REVUpminster (talk) 18:50, 10 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      • Yes, Mill Creek is reliable. The cast lists appear fine for Robin Hood. It appears that these discrepancies may have been necessary to thwart the criminal activities (my opinion) of U.S. Senator Joseph McCarthy and his lot in the misuse and abuse of government power. Many of his movie industry victims ended up in destitution, poverty, and early death due to that stress. At least the creep (my opinion) died early. Funny you mention that particular series of Sherlock Holmes - I have that too. Still reviewing Network episodes of Robin Hood. Thor Dockweiler (talk) 04:20, 11 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Sorry to butt in but, for whatever reason, eps I checked on the Internet Archive website, which I presume are from the Mill Creek DVDs, have the wrong credits for several episodes, example "The Coming of Robin Hood" and "The Youngest Outlaw" have the same end titles with Shaun Noble credited as Edgar and I don't think he appears in either of those stories and the titles themselves are possibly from the US version of "Maid Marian" in both cases. Other eps also had end titles from different stories, perhaps their public domain prints were incomplete??? As for the episode 1 writer credit the BFI hold a 16mm print crediting Lawrence McClellan from an event screening in the 70s but the print screened by Channel 4 in 1985 listed Eric Heath so it would seems alternative end titles were created somewhere along the line. 81.111.127.132 (talk) 03:51, 17 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • The writers have been a problem. On the Network insert it lists The Coming of Robin Hood as Lawrence McCellan but the film as Eric Heath, But as I have established they are the same person. I think we should list the writer as on screen as that it what most people would see.REVUpminster (talk) 07:46, 17 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Episode Order a Few Notes

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Series One: "The Knight Who Came To Dinner" intro for the Character Sir Richard of The Lea, the BFI dates this as ep 7 (Network DVD ep 37 on Disc 5) and comes before his second appearence in "The Challenge". "Queen Eleanor" BFI ep 9 and comes before her 2nd appearence in "The Deserted Castle" the other thing to look out for is the two connected episodes "Secret Mission" (intro Peregrinus) and "Richard the Lionheart", BFI dates are in correct story order, Network DVD has the second episode "Richard the Lionheart" as ep 22 on Disc 3 and the 1st episode "Secret Mission" as ep 32 on Disc 4, totally the wrong order for these two eps.

Series Two: five connected episodes "Ambush" , "The Bandit of Brittany", "The Goldmakers Return", "Flight From France" and "Fair Play" (a sequence of episodes which has Robin leaving Sherwood to go to France, after vowing to escort Prince Arthur to safety there at the end of "The Ambush" and returning to Sherwood about five minutes from the end of the episode "Fair Play") BFI dates are in the correct story order, Network has "The Secret Pool" inbetween "Flight From France" and "Fair Play" which is wrong. Also note two connected episodes with Maid Marian and Robin in Ireland "The Mystery of Irelands Eye" and "The Little People".81.111.127.132 (talk) 04:56, 17 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • Looking at this again, I certainly think the BFI order is correct for Britain and Network have just followed the CBS dates. The people there are probably too young to remember it. More importantly, nearly all ITC/ITP programmes series were completed before the first episode was broadcast explaining why episodes went out of order overseas. Series that became successful would go into second series production and the only ones that did were Robin Hood, The Saint and later Danger Man's.REVUpminster (talk) 07:56, 17 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Series Four: Regarding 'Bault' its interesting that the name is used for a soldier that appears briefly and killed in 'Six Strings to His Bow' - an Alan Wheatley episode - "Baults gone after him"/"Baults been killed" these lines are heard clearly though later in the episode Morton Lowry as the un-named leftenant, finding the body refers to him as 'Wolf', suggests the name was put in during the sound dub, causing a minor error though nothing to worry about. The moustached Sgt. Bault, played by Graham Stewart, according to the credits, appears toward the end of 'Goodbye Little John' - a John Arnat episode - and the Deputy Sheriff has him take Morton Lowrys leftenant to the dungeons for his bungling, with Bault taking over as leftenant. Bault, now played by Terry Yorke, according to the credits, appears again in 'Hostage For A Hangman' and 'Hue and Cry' before Lowry returns in 'The Oath' and there after. (Ronald Hines also appears as another un-named leftenant during the early part of the series.)

Series Four: 'The Flying Sorcerer' - this episode although obviously made before 'The Lady-Killer', and without Paul Eddington, was originally scheduled after it because the latter half of 'The Lady-Killer' episode relys on Will Scarlet trying to prove the merits of the crossbow to the Sheriff, whilst in 'The Flying Sorcerer' the Sheriff's many soldiers in this episode are armed to the teeth with crossbows, obviously someone spotted this and placed it after 'The Lady-Killer' for in series continuity, although the Sheriff's men regularly used crossbows in the three previous series.

The BFI episode order here is correct for series 4, having watched the episodes this way round, I can say that ATV London got it right, its a shame they went out of sequence elswhere.81.111.127.132 (talk) 11:43, 24 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Series Two: The episodes 'The Trap' and 'The Dream' both seem like scripts written for series one, pressed into service for series two, as both refer to the King's Ransom in Austria, and would probably have fitted better in series one, after the episode 'The Traitor' in which Robin is involved with seeing the Ransom safely to the coast. 81.111.127.132 (talk) 11:23, 1 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • "A Village Wooing" listed here in series three has Bernadette O'Farrell as Marian and a minstrel song. Network list it as more logically in series two.REVUpminster (talk) 00:08, 5 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "A Frighened Tailor" listed in series three has Bernadette O'Farrell as Maid Marian and a minstrel song. Network list it as after "The Infidel" in series two which is more logical as Maid Marian has a new hairstyle as in the Infidel REVUpminster (talk) 21:11, 12 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yeah, "A Village Wooing" and "A Frightened Tailor" would seem to be in the wrong series, but then again this is a screening order and there could have been, at the time, some reason for them not to have been screened with the other eps from their original production blocks, logically the Network placement is right but ATV London obviously held on to these two for later transmission why? we will probably never know. (Perhaps someone thought Bernadette would be in series 3 and so held on to a couple of good eps from series two to ease the production schedule on series 3, just a thought!)
  • "The Scientist" BFI listed as last of the series 1 episodes here appears in series two on Network DVD/US TX and "The Prisoner" first ep series 2 on ATV London here but a series 1 ep on Network DVD, there could just have been a mistake in transmission caused by an overlap on the production schedules of series one and two, or ATV just thought "The Scientist" a better conclusion to series one and "The Prisoner" a better opener for series two.81.111.126.82 (talk) 01:36, 25 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • UPDATE:Transmission date error at BFI for "A VILLAGE WOOING" :found the correct date looking through scans of TV Times from 1950 here [[1]] for December 1956 discovered 'A Village Wooing' shown 27th December 1956 and not 1957 as BFI website states, obviously a human error when the tx data was put on the BFI website. Can you use the website scans as source for correcting TX date of 'A Village Wooing' REV???81.111.126.82 (talk) 14:47, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have been trying to get on that site for ages. I could spend all year looking at it as I was about 6 at the time. A Village Wooing being on Thursday at 10pm indicates to me it is a repeat. In that same issue on Sunday the 23rd at 530pm it gives The Friar's Pilgrimage which compares with the Network DVD as the Monday 24th which indicates to me the dates on the DVD are ATV midlands. I still think the network dvd is the most acurate for dates and order. i know there is a problem with the Richard of the Lea episodes. I see no problem with the Irish episodes as they would not want the star missing two episodes in a row so alternated them. I am slowly working my way through them adding little bits and looking for real historical characters. Johns second wife was a 12 year old. Even in 2013 they would probably do it in the same way as 1956 ie ignore it. A Village Wooing and The Frightened Tailor must be moved into series two because of the reasons above in a previous reply.

You can cite any reference if you have seen it in guide or a book by quoting the title and page number. It does not have to be on the internet REVUpminster (talk) 19:20, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

No On-Screen Titles

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The episodes mentioned as having no on-screen titles are DVD specific, taken from eps prepared for French TV, they all start with the same three shots of castles to replace the episode title for example, and so have moved to DVD section. Original prints will have ep titles.81.111.127.132 (talk) 09:24, 7 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Alternative US Title

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Looking at some old US/Canadian newspaper listings at Google news, found the series listed as "The Adventures of Sherwood Forest"/"Sherwood Forest" when transmitted by NBC affiliate station WFLA-TV in Tampa Bay-St Petersberg in Florida in August 1959, the same time WTVT the local CBS affiliate were taking the feed off the CBS affiliate station WCNY-TV - Watertown run of Series 4 episodes, if you could recieve both stations you could watch series 4 eps as "The Adventures of Robin Hood" on WTVT at 11.30 in the morning and series three episodes later the same day at 5.30 in the afternoon on WFLA-TV with the alternative title captions as "The Adventures in Sherwood Forest". Also found a listing for "Robin Des Bois" in 1959 on Canadian french language channel CBOFT at 9.00pm on fridays from March to September, during 1959 run of series 4 eps on CBS on Saturday mornings.

Syndication i.e. not broadcast on main Network only by its affiliate stations, the October 1958-September 1959 run of repeats and first run series 4 episodes, was principally by WCNY-TV - Watertown (or maybe WCBS2-TV?!), not to be confused with WCNY-TV - Syracuse, who used the call letters from 1965, the original WCNY became WWNY (I think?!) the C standing for Charnagee New York, the 1965 one stands for Central New York, and other CBS affiliated stations on Saturday mornings at 11.30. Also during this period WHEN-TV - Syracuse for awhile broadcast episodes at 5.30am on Saturday mornings, with WFLA-TV - Tampa screening eps at 5.30pm with alternative title sequence and French Canadians could see it on CBOFT (and at times CBFT - Montreal) at 9.00pm on Fridays in french. This would, at the moment, appear to be the case. This is all original research, but that's life.81.111.124.190 (talk) 07:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)81.111.124.190 (talk) 17:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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