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Content discussion to prevent edit war

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There appears to be a pending edit war on this article. Please discuss before doing any more reverts. Active Banana ( bananaphone 20:19, 25 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

So far this appears to be the only discussion outside of edit summaries:

I appreciate your good-faith edits on List of Korean musicians. I generally do not like to be a source of any edit war so I will personally discuss this with you.

Yes I am not from South Korea, I am from Pakistan. Yet I am the one who made this well-organized list for Koreans because they had not done this themselves. Wikipedia is not about where editor is from. It is about good-faith and proper editing.

Firstly, you have a point there. There are Chinese artists in the list. But the criteria for adding entries is NOT the nationality of the artists. It is the language they use. If it was about the nationality, the list would be named List of South Korean musicians.

Secondly, this is about music, which includes ballad singers, k-pop singers. Musicians not only includes vocalists but also instrumentalists. Music is music. If you have to be specific to k-pop, please edit List of K-pop artists instead.

If you will not reply me in three days time. I will consider reverting your edits. I will also add footnotes that would explain the readers that these artists are not of Korean ethnicity. Farjad0322 (talk) 19:54, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Looking at the stated article criteria "This is a list of musical artists that sing in Korean language" it appears that what we need is a citation for each entry that verifies that the artist sings in Korean. For those that we are not able to find a citation, WP:LIST and WP:BIO and WP:V state that we need to remove them from the list.Active Banana ( bananaphone 20:24, 25 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Is citation for each entry is necessary...I mean, all entries are linked to their respective articles (which state that they sing in Korean). As for artists that are not of Korean ethnicity, we cann put footnotes with them. Farjad0322 (talk) 20:29, 25 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia:BIO#Lists_of_people: "Furthermore, every entry in any such list requires a reliable source attesting to the fact that the named person is a member of the listed group." Yes, sources for every entry in lists involving people. Active Banana ( bananaphone 23:57, 25 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Just great! Now the real work begins...I will start sourcing the entries by tommorow. Farjad0322 (talk) 00:30, 26 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Given this edit [1]. There may be some dispute about the contents of the article. Before you begin sourcing, you may want to verify with the other user that s/he will agree to that definition. Active Banana ( bananaphone 00:54, 26 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I plan to involve a South Korean administrator to define it for us. I will try finding him/her on Wikipedia:WikiProject Korea. If that won't work, I will ask an administrator from Wikipedia:WikiProject Musicians to make a definition. In either way, it is going to be a long trip. So, I will start from tommorow with a fresh mind. Farjad0322 (talk) 01:03, 26 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Opinions for 'criteria definition'

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Before anyone start fixing this list, we need to collect opinions on definition of criteria for entries in the list. Without the definition, we cannot start adding citations. Criteria could be one OR more of the following. Farjad0322 (talk) 18:01, 26 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • A. Musicians by ethnicity e.g. Artist needs to be of Korean ancestry but need not be in Korean states (e.g. can be active in Japan)
  • B. Musicians by nationality e.g. Artist is a national of either South Korea or North Korea (Korean Nationality is based on the Korean ethnicity).


Category:North Korean musicians and Category:North Korean musicians

  • C. Musicians by language e.g. Artists need to sing in Korean language - will create problems for instrumentalists and artists of other ethnicities...footnotes suggested
  • D. Musicians by genre e.g. Ballad (such as K.Will), Rock (such as TRAX (band)), K-pop (such as SNSD), Hip-hop (such as Taeyang) etc.
    Category:Korean musicians by genre
  • E. Musicians by type e.g. Type of music: vocalists, rappers, DJs, songwriters, instrumentalists, composers...
  • F. Other ideas...share...
  • G. Or may be we should delete the list and rely on Category:Korean musicians in future...
  • H. Or may be we should create a separate list for each of these options...
  • I. Or may be we should modify this list into tables (one for solo artists and one for bands) such as one below. (This will solve most our problems but will require multiple citations)...
Korean solo artists
Artist Aliases Gender Types Languages Genre Ethnicity Nationality
Kim Hyung-Soo K.Will Male Vocalist, composer Korean Soul Korean South Korea
Tasha Reid Baby Tasha Female Vocalist, rapper English, Korean Hip-hop, R&B African American, Korean South Korea, USA
Korean bands
Band Other names Members Languages Genre
2PM - 6 (formerly 7) Korean Dance, Hip-hop, Pop
Girls' Generation So Nyeo Shi Dae, SNSD, Soshi 9 English, Japanese, Korean Dance, Pop
Super Junior SJ, SuJu 12 (formerly 13) Chinese, Korean Dance, Pop, R&B

straw poll

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  • somewhere (within the naming guidelines or disambiguation maybe?) there is a proposition of "least astonishment" - that article content/names should be the ones that when a reader arrives on the page the content should be the "least astonishing" connection. For me, upon hearing "Korean musicians" I would be least astonished if the list were people of Korean Nationality. I would not be very astonished if I landed on the page and saw that it was people of Korean ethnicity. I would be slightly more, but not unreasonably, astonished upon seeing people who have recorded/performed in the Korean language. I am not seeing any of the proposals as being astonishing enough that I would block consensus for their use. (as a side note I hate working with tables, but the suggested table format would allow an organization of all of the potential data.) Active Banana ( bananaphone 18:25, 26 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • I will hate working with tables too...it will require more citations...but I wanted collective opinion of wikipedians who have worked on articles of Koreans artists in the past. I have invited at least 12 active wikipedians to take part in this...By the way, which definition you think is the best for criteria of listing? Farjad0322 (talk) 18:39, 26 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • I agree with Active Banana. "Korean musicians" is typically considered to be musicians of Korean nationality, like American musicians are from America, English musicians are from England, etc. This list shouldn't be about artists that simply sing in Korean or have a Korean ethnicity. mx3 話 05:34, 27 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • Yes I would also agree with this and nationality would be my first priority too. But then should we should move the article to List of South Korean musicians. Word 'Korean' can be a ethnic group or a language but not a nationality, right? It has to be South Korea...there are hardly any musician from North Korea. See Category:North Korean musicians. Farjad0322 (talk) 12:29, 27 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Meh, I guess we would need to move this article to List of South Korean artists then. If we kept it here, we could still use it as a nationality because the actual name of South Korea is the Republic of Korea, and the actual name of North Korea is...Democratic People's Republic of Korea (what a mouthful), but I guess it would still be misleading and kind of confusing to have an article for two nationalities. Maybe when the countries reunite we can put them together...lol. mx3 話 15:58, 27 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Guys, just another question is that...should this list contain singers, composers, rappers, DJs and instrumentalists...? Also, User:Moshiso says that entries should belong to K-pop circle only nd deletes anyone out of it, meaning that K-rock, Hip-hop, ballad singers or even orchestra singers etc. should not be added. I don't agree with this at all...because we have a separate List of K-pop artists (a even more horrible list) to deal with K-pop circle...I think definition of music is perfectly clear...Anyone who practices music...is a musician...How dificult it is to understand? Farjad0322 (talk) 12:29, 27 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Bands are technically artists (people who make music) in a group shape. In the list they have a separate section. Hence they belong in the category of musicians, in my opinion. But I will consider moving them to a separate list. Since not all of the members of a band be of South Korean nationality. I would have to conduct a separate discussion for that. Farjad0322 (talk|contribs) 14:22, 29 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

According to WP:3O I have three opinions from Active Banana, mx3 and myself, who most closely recommend Musicians by nationality as a criteria for listing. The opposition, Moshiso has not replied to any of my posts for four days now. I will proceed with my editings though it would take time to finish this job. I would also move the article to List of South Korean musicians. Thank You guys for the help. Farjad0322 (talk|contribs) 14:22, 29 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Cleaning up process

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This list is need of a clean up. Things to pay attention to:

  • Listed artists/bands don't exist on English wiki
  • Duplicates (Ex. Girls Generation and SNSD)
  • Solo artists and groups section (with their own 0-9 & A-Z)
  • When you get to group section, the columns are balances (middle column starting at M-S)

I propose combining the Solo artists and Groups sections, using Template:Compact ToC instead of custom TOC and break each person/group in each heading into columns of four. Before we can do that, I request a semi-protection to prevent this mess from being re-created since most contributors were IPs (nothing wrong with IP contributors but...) and looking at the reverts from them in the history. ☴ Jaewon [Talk] 22:30, 30 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

 Clean up completed. ☴ Jaewon [Talk] 03:51, 3 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
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