Talk:List of South African military chiefs

Gen Binda

gen. binda recently died in a car accident. maybe someone knows his successor. --Severino 21:11, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Gen Binda died in November 2006. He has, by March 12, 2007, not been replaced. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.54.202.246 (talk) 08:08, 12 March 2007 (UTC).

List

The list does not appear entirely accurate. Below is a list obtained from the SA National Museum of Military History as part of research conducted for my "Guide to the SANDF": (Aplogies for the poor spacing, I'm new at this; I'm sure someone with better skill can "panel beat" it into shape.)

Updated SANDF Chiefs list 1912-present

SA National Defence Force (1994 – present) Chief of the SANDF

• GEN Godfrey Nhlanhla Ngwenya June 1, 2005 – present
• GEN Siphiwe Nyanda * June 1, 1998 – May 31, 2005
• GEN Georg Lodewyk Meiring* November 1, 1993 – May 31, 1998

SA Defence Force (1957-1994) Chief of the SADF

• GEN Georg Lodewyk Meiring* November 1, 1993 – April 30, 1994
• GEN Andreas J “Kat” Liebenberg November 1, 1990 – October 31, 1993
• GEN Johannes J “Jannie” Geldenhuys* November 1, 1985 – October 31, 1990
• GEN Constand Viljoen* October 7, 1980 – October 30, 1985
• GEN Magnus Andre de M Malan* September 1, 1976 – October 6, 1980
• ADM Hugo H Biermann April 1, 1972 – August 31, 1976

Commandant General of the SADF

• GEN Rudolph C Hiemstra January 1, 1966 – March 31, 1972
• GEN Pieter H Grobbelaar January 1, 1961 – December 30, 1965
• CMDT GEN Stephen A Melville September 25, 1958 – December 31, 1960
• CMDT GEN Hendrik B Klopper September 23, 1956 – September 24, 1958

Union Defence Force (1912-1957) Chief of the South African General Staff

• LTG Christiaan L de Wet du Toit March 16, 1950 - September 22, 1956
• LTG Leonard Beyers May 2, 1949 – March 15, 1950
• LTG Sir HA “Pierre” van Ryneveld May 2, 1933 – May 1, 1949
• MG Andries JE Brink October 1, 1922 – May 1, 1933
• BG JJ Collyer October 14, 1914 – September 20, 1922

Inspector General of the Union Defence Forces

• BG Sir HT “Tim” Lukin July 1, 1912 – October 13, 1914

Commandant General of the Active Citizen Force

• BG Christiaan F Beyers July 1, 1912 – October 13, 1914

Table 6.6a: Previous Chiefs of the UDF, SADF and SANDF. * Alive at the time of writing, February 17, 2007.

SA National Defence Force (1994 – present) Chief of the SA Army

• LTG Solly Zacharia Shoke June 1, 2004 – present
• LTG Gilbert Lebeko Ramano* - May 31, 2004
• LTG Reginald Otto* January 1, 1995 –
• LTG Hattingh J Pretorius* November 1, 1993 – December 31, 1994

SA Defence Force (1957-1994) Chief of the SA Army

• LTG Georg Lodewyk Meiring* March 1, 1990 – October 31, 1993
• LTG Andreas J “Kat” Liebenberg November 1, 1985 - February 28, 1990
• LTG Johannes J “Jannie” Geldenhuys* October 7, 1980 – October 30, 1985
• LTG Constand L Viljoen* September 1, 1976 – October 6, 1980
• LTG Magnus Andre de M Malan* July 1, 1973 – August 31, 1976
• LTG Willem P Louw December 1, 1967 – June 30, 1973
• LTG Charles A “Pop” Fraser October 1, 1966 – November 30, 1967

SA Army Chief of Staff

• Combat General Petrus J Jacobs March 4, 1963 – December 31, 1965
• Combat General Sybrand A Engelbrecht November 1, 1959 – March 3, 1963
• Brig J Nicolaas “Nick” Bierman September 25, 1958 – October 31, 1959

Union Defence Force (1912-1957) SA Army Chief of Staff

• Brig Pieter H Grobbelaar May 1, 1953 – September 24, 1958
• Brig Hendrik B Klopper March 16, 1950 – April 30, 1953

Director General SA Land Forces

• Brig Christiaan L de W du Toit November 10, 1948 – March 15, 1950

Director General Training and Operations

• Brig P de Waal August 9, 1948 – November 9, 1948

Deputy Chief of the SA General Staff

• MG WH Evered Poole March 2, 1946 – August 8, 1948

Deputy Chief of Staff and Director General Operations and Training

• COL HS Cilliers August 1, 1945 – March 1, 1946
• Brig HS Wakefield February 9, 1944 – July 31, 1945
• Brig P de Waal September 1, 1940 – February 8, 1944

Deputy Chief of the SA General Staff

• BG George E Brink September 11, 1939 – August 30, 1940

Director Military Procedures and Planning

• COL P de Waal May 1, 1934 – September 10, 1939
• LTC FH Theron May 1, 1933 – April 30, 1934

Table 9.5: Previous Chiefs of the SA Army

SA National Defence Force (1994 – present) Chief of the Air Force

• LTG Carlo Gagiano March 1, 2005 – present
• LTG Roelf J Beukes* March 1, 2000 – February 28, 2005
• LTG Willem Hendrik Hechter* May 1, 1996 – February 29, 2000
• LTG James Kriel* April 27, 1994 – April 30, 1996

SA Defence Force (1957-1994) Chief of the Air Force

• LTG James Kriel* November 1, 1991 – April 26, 1994
• LTG Jan PB van Loggerenberg* July 1, 1988 – October 31, 1991
• LTG Dennis J Earp March 1, 1984 – June 30, 1988
• LTG A Michal Muller December 1, 1979 – February 29, 1984
• LTG Robert HD “Bob” Rogers March 1, 1975 – November 30, 1979
• LTG Jacobus P Verster December , 1967 – February 28, 1975
• LTG Henry J “Kalfie” Martin May 1, 1965 – November 30, 1967

SAAF Chief of Staff

• Combat General Barend G Viljoen September 23, 1956 – April 30, 1965

Union Defence Force (1912-1957)

• BRIG Stephen A Melville August 25, 1954 – September 22, 1956
• BRIG Harold G Willmott July 1, 1951 – August 24, 1954

Director General of the SAAF

• BRIG James T Durrant October 1, 1946 – June 30, 1951
• BRIG Harold G Willmott October 17, 1945 – September 10, 1946
• MG Christoffel J Venter October 1, 1940 – October 16, 1945
• COL John Holthouse September 13, 1939 – Sept. 30, 1940

Director Air Service and Technical Services

• LTC Hector C Daniel September 13, 1936 – Sept. 12, 1939

Director Air Service

• COL John Holthouse May 1, 1933 – September 12, 1936
• COL Sir Helperus Andreas “Pierre” van Ryneveld February 1, 1920 – April 30, 1933

Table 10.7: Previous Chiefs of the SAAF

SA Navy, SA National Defence Force (1994 – present) Chief of the SA Navy

• V Adm Refiloe Johannes Mudimu March 1, 2005 – present
• V Adm Johan Frans Retief* November 1, 2000 - February 28, 2005
• V Adm Robert Claude Simpson-Anderson* April 27, 1994 – October 31, 2000

SA Navy, SA Defence Force (1957-1994)

• V Adm Robert Claude Simpson-Anderson* September 1, 1992 – April 26, 1994
• V Adm Lambert J “Woody” Woodburne* July 1, 1990 – August 31, 1992
• V Adm Glen Syndercombe July 1, 1985 – March 31, 1989
• V Adm Andries P “Dries” Putter October 1, 1982 – June 30, 1990 (two terms)
• V Adm Ronald A Edwards February 1, 1980 – September 30, 1982
• V Adm J Charl Walters October 1, 1977 – January 30, 1980
• V Adm James “Johnny” Johnson April 1, 1972 – September 30, 1977
• V Adm Hugo H Biermann July 1, 1966 – March 31, 1972

SA Navy Chief of Staff

• R Adm Hugo H Biermann May 1, 1955 – June 30, 1966

SA Naval Service & Seaward Defence Force, Union Defence Force (1912-1957) SA Navy and Marine Chief of Staff

• Cmdre Hugo H Biermann December 1, 1952 – April 30, 1955
• Brigadier Pieter de Waal July 1, 1951 – November 30, 1952

Director SA Naval Force

• Commodore Frederick J Deane December 1, 1946 – June 30, 1951
• Commodore James Dalgleish March 21, 1941 – November 30, 1946

Director Seaward Defence Force

• R Adm Guy W Hallifax September 16, 1939 – March 28, 1941

Director SA Naval Services

• vacant
• Commander RFUP Fitzgerald June 4, 1928 – November 4, 1932
• Commander Norman H Rankin April 1, 1922 – June 3, 1928

Table 11.6: Previous Chiefs of the Navy

SA National Defence Force (1994 – present)

• LTG Vejaynand Indurjith Ramlakan 2005-
• LTG Jurinus Janse van Rensburg* 2000-2005
• LTG Davidson Masuku* 1997-2000
• LTG Daniel P “Neil” Knobel* 1994-1997

SA Defence Force (1957-1994)

• LTG Daniel P “Neil” Knobel* 1988-1994
• LTG JN Nieuwoudt 1977-1988
• LTG Colin Cockcroft 1969-1977
• MG Eugene Raymond 1960-1969

Table 12.5: Previous Surgeons General

LTG Sipho Z Binda June 1, 2005 to November 14, 2006 LTG Godfrey Ngwenya January 1, 2001 to May 31, 2005 LTG Deon Fereira August 1, 1997 to December 31, 2000

Table 7.3: The Roll of Chiefs of Joint Operations

Can we be more specific?

Would you care to highlight the discrepancies so that we can try and clear them up? At a glance through the lists which you got from the SANMMH, I find a few inaccuracies there too, e.g.

• Brig Gen Lukin's title was Inspector-General of the Permanent Force, not of the UDF and he held the post until 1915;
• Col De Waal's was Director of Military Operations & Training, not "Procedures and Training";
• Gen Hiemstra succeeded Gen Grobbelaar in October 1965, not January 1966;
• Sir Pierre v Ryneveld was promoted to full General in 1945 for his leadership in WW2.

I'd query listing Lukin and Beyers and Collyer among former Chiefs of the SADF because Lukin and Beyers controlled only army units and IMHO would be predecessors of C Army; and Collyer controlled only Defence HQ - it wasn't until 1922 that the CGS was given command over the whole defence force.

Dirk L 18:49, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Table vs List

I have put a table into CNavy - what do you feel about doing it this way rather than the current list format? If everyone is happy I will start converting - and incorporate the dates listed in a previous post above Gbawden (talk) 12:14, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Proposed page layout change

I would like to propose a change to the layout of this page. Currently there are 2 columns

I propose redesigning as follows: Single colum, laid out as follows

• SANDF
• -CSANDF

• SADF
• -CSADF

• Service Heads
• - CSAAF
• - CArmy
• - CMHS
• - CNavy

- CJops

In addition, I would put the lists into tables, with full dates as proposed in a discussion above

Your thoughts? - have a look at my sandbox for an idea of what it will look like Gbawden (talk) 17:31, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

: Would also like your input on how we deal with the changes in titles over the years Gbawden (talk) 07:07, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Separation of Chiefs of the UDF and SADF

Why is it important to split the list of chiefs 1922-94 into two lists because the UDF changed its name to SADF in 1958? It was simply a change of name, not the creation of a new organisation. It was not like 1994, when the SADF was amalgamated with six other organisations to form a new organisation.

I think the different titles 'Chief of the General Staff', 'Commandant General', and 'Chief of the SADF' should be put back into the introductory para. There was no such title as 'Chief of the UDF', so the section heading is misleading.

If the chiefs of the UDF/SADF are to be split because of changes of service name then, logically, the chiefs of the services should also be split at every point that the service's name was changed, e.g. from 'land forces' to 'army', or from 'seaward defence force' to 'SA naval forces'. It seems unnecessary.

Dirk L (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 08:19, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

SGT major of the Army, Air Force, etc

Should we consider compiling a list of the SGTs major of the Army or should we limit this page to Chiefs as it is now? Gbawden (talk) 09:29, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

I don't think the sergeants-major are really "military chiefs". They're senior warrant officers. If we were to include them, then we'd have to list the quartermaster-general, the inspector-general etc, because their departments also had sergeants-major. If we were to list the QMG and IG, then how could we leave out the chiefs of personnel, intelligence, operations, etc? I'd leave the scope of the page as it is - if there's a need for a listing of the sgts major, they could have a separate page. Dirk L (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 11:56, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

I agree, that would be stretching the scope of this article too far. Roger (talk) 12:26, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Chaplain General

• It's just my opinion, but I consider the Chaplain General post to be part of the Chiefs.. BoonDock (talk) 13:46, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Possibly but then at some point this page is going to have everyone on it. I would limit the Chiefs to being anyone of the ones as determined by the Constitution. Gbawden (talk) 13:58, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
    • Point. What is bugging me is all the succession boxes on the various pages. This info should be maintained in some central place. I was thinking that a template which had all the various posts with their incumbents and dates etc available, then it could pull that info into succession boxes on the individual's pages. Also, could be used to generate lists of OCs etc. Not sure how to accomplish something like that. I need to do some research. BoonDock (talk) 14:09, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
      • I tend to agree with Gbawden. I cannot recall the exact composition of the Defence Command Council, but the Army, SAAF, Navy and Medical Command Councils were constituted of the equivalent Arms of Service Chiefs, ie (for the SAAF) CAF, CAFS, IGAF, CAS Ops, CAS Int, CAS Log, CAS Pers, CAS Fin, CAS Plan and SMAF. (I was secretary of the SAAF Comand Council in the Van Loggerenberg years.) The SAAF Chaplain was not part of the Council, but the Sergeant Major of the Air Force was, so the Sergeant Majors should really be included. -- André Kritzinger (talk) 14:25, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
        • Not arguing the merits, just feeling out the rationale. If it's not appropriate here, then possibly another article with lists of the various posts and their incumbents? BoonDock (talk) 14:48, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
        • That wasn't clear. What I meant was that this article is essentially a list of a limited number of posts and their incumbents over time. There are many other posts which also have lists of incumbents. It occurs to me that if not appropriate here, there should be another place where it is... BoonDock (talk) 14:50, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

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• VADM Retief painting SA Naval Museum.jpg (discussion)
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Military Background

• WHAT IS VERY FUNNY HERE.NO FORMER APLA WITH MILITARY BACKGROUND, ONLY CHARTERISTS ANC, WHITE MINORITY SETTLER SADF AND BANTUSTAN TRANSKEI DEFENCE FORCE BIOGRAPHIES..WOW 196.11.235.235 (talk · contribs)
• If you have information which you believe should be added to Wikipedia, you are of course encouraged to add it, as long as it meets the various criteria of notability, neutrality, citations et al. As it happens, the onus is on users of Wikipedia to add information, and it would appear that thus far none has been interested enough to add the information that you suggest. I, for one, would be happy to see what you can contribute BoonDock (talk) 13:29, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

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