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Talk:List of South African mass media

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Sources for some small regional (not italicized in article) papers: [1] and [2]. — Jeandré, 2005-11-23t20:49z

Suggested merge

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I suggest merging Newspapers_in_South_Africa into this article. This article is currently much more complete. If it ever gets to the stage where the newspapers section warrants a separate article it can be split off again, but at the moment the newspaper article is embarassing in comparison to this one, and it's just double the work to maintain links to newspapers etc. Greenman 16:38, 3 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Does anyone have any comments on the proposed merge of List of South African television channels into this article? Greenman 12:46, 7 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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there is no reference, except a wrongly redirected link for the Daily Sun. the Daily sun is the highest selling newspaper in South Africa, with outdated published circulation figures of 400 000 and a actual current daily average of over 500 000.

Here is the official media 24 press release on the Daily Sun

"Daily Sun is the biggest daily newspaper in South Africa. With over 400 000 sales in Gauteng, Limpopo Province, Mpumalanga and Northwest Province, the national expansion of the paper to KwaZulu-Natal, Free State and the Eastern Cape will add to the existing circulation.

Daily Sun targets readers in and around the major urban centers of South Africa. These readers are predominantly black, English literate with a minimum high school education, working class earners - the economic core of South Africa. Daily Sun readers are progressive in their outlook, open to new experiences and eager to explore the opportunities the new social, political and economic environment offers.

They are the major beneficiaries of change in this country. Their living conditions and general standard of living changed almost overnight as access to housing, electricity, running water, job opportunities and minimum wages came sweeping through under a new democratic government. Our reader thrives under these conditions and will typically take advantage of these opportunities in order to improve his or her general well-being." [[3]]

Which in itself is outdated as the Daily Sun has already expanded its operations to include KwaZulu-Natal, Free State and the Eastern Cape. Leaving only the Western Cape to be conquered by 2008 at the latest.

"Alternative Media" section

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I would like those who believe the "Alternative Media" section is appropriate to justify why those particular websites are notable as "media". They do not cover general news and events; they cover only the activities of their corresponding organisations and related stories. (I would except from this the SACSIS website, which upon reflection I think could justifiably be included on this list.) This is not "media" in the sense of this article.

In short - what makes those websites (SACSIS excepted) more notable than any other website of an organisation in which it publishes information about its activities? Or do you believe that all such websites (thousands of them) should be listed here? - htonl (talk) 22:35, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Once those organizations produce a monthly/weekly/daily newspaper generally available (i.e. one can walk into s shop and buy one) or they go on air with their own TV or Radio station, then that media is eligible to be listed here. Until then it should be removed. There is however a newspaper produced by and dedicated to the homeless that should be listed here. --NJR_ZA (talk) 08:17, 30 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
This logic is faulty and exudes bias. Khayelitsha Struggles presents local news from all over Khayelitsha (SA's second largest townships). Second, just because some people dont find certain types of news relevant to them, does not mean it is not relevant to other people. Abahlali baseMjondolo does actually have a print media version for instance and is definitely one of the more popular sources of alternative news in SA. All these sources are important in order to provide a well-rounded understanding of what is going on in SA. Therefore they are important to include in list of SA Media.
I would expect everyone to understand the need for diversity in media. For instance, while the newspaper on homelessness definitely has a lower readership than the Abahlali baseMjondolo site, it should also be listed on this page. And i think it should constitute alternative media because it definitely isn't mainstream.
Wiki editors need to realise their own bias.Frombelow (talk) 09:04, 1 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Firstly, you need to assume good faith and not accuse other editors of having "agendas to prevent [Abahlali etc.] from being mentioned" as you did in your edit summary. Secondly, you still have not articulated what makes those sites any different from any other organisation's blog or informational website. As far as I can see, the websites you have re-added (again, SACSIS excepted) only publish information related to their activities and certain other specific topics. This does not meet the criteria of "general media" as I see it. (I would also like to see some kind of citation for your claim that "Abahlali [...] is definitely one of the more popular sources of alternative news in SA.") - htonl (talk) 10:09, 1 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Coming in accusing everyone of secret Agendas isn't a good way to contribute constructively, especially if the links you are adding are not media. Abahlali baseMjondolo is a shack-dwellers movement, not media. The Zabalaza Anarchist Communist Federation is a communist federation, not media. The Western Cape Anti-Eviction Campaign is a movement to stop evictions, not media. SACSIS is a news agency, so that looks hopeful, so let's get an article started and link to that, not an external link to their website, which is not the policy for these kinds of lists. The same applies to Khayelitsha Struggles. Greenman (talk) 11:32, 1 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I am not accusing anyone of having a secret agenda. I think it is pretty clear that everyone has an agenda and I am just saying that we should be open about it. However, I apologise if what I wrote was taken as being in bad faith. It seems I did not write it in a positive and cooperative way.
However, Htonl is correct that I have not articulate what makes those sites different from an organisation's blog. So I will do so now:
The claim that, for instance, the Abahlali website is not media comes from a lack of understanding about what AbM actually is. Yes it is a shackdwellers movement. But the website itself should be considered a 'means of communication' about what is going on in informal settlements throughout South Africa. When something happens in the AbM communities (which constitute approx 40,000 AbM members), it gets written about and placed on the Abahlali website, it goes out on the Abahlali email list, and also gets communicated throught the movement by other means (including verbal and print media). Also, other communities (affiliated or not affiliated with AbM) often approach Abahlali specifically so that it can publicise an issue or event in their community that the mainstream media is unwilling to publish. For instance, when the mainstream media was misreporting the events of eMacambini including stating that the local chief represented the entire community of eMacambini. The locally democratically elected committee approach AbM to publicise that issue including the statement that the chief did not represent the community and the the community - speaking through the elected committee - would represent itself. In this case, the Abahlali website was thus a means for the community to get their issue heard outside the community itself. The AbM website is a response to the failure of the mainstream media in SA to adequately cover a wide enough range of issues from a wide enough range of perspectives.
"Thus, the AbM website along with its verbal, print and email lists clearly constitute 'media' via the official and most unofficial definitions of what 'media' actually is. For instance you can look it up here: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/media From these definition, i can quote that: Media is "the means of communication, as radio and television, newspapers, and magazines, that reach or influence people widely". Also, one can look on wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media) which sees media the "tools used to store and deliver information or data".
Looking at the other sites, I see that the only one that may not constitute media under this definition is the Zabalaza site. So I would not be opposed to keeping that off the list. However all these other sites are used as a medium (tool) for communication. So, by definition, they do constitute media and should be included on the list. We should not be excluding them merely because they do not constitute mainstream or do not constitute a more traditional understanding of what media is.Frombelow (talk) 13:43, 1 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It makes no sense to remove this kind of info on relevant alternative media in SA. There should definitely be an alternative media section. It will be a very important resource for people wanting to find sites where alternative viewpoints are available. And by the definition given above, such sites definitely consititute 'media'.93.172.59.34 (talk) 13:34, 10 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with Frombelow. we should be expanding that page as a resource for many types of media viewpoints.212.143.124.30 (talk) 15:11, 11 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

RAPPORT

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WHOEVER said that RAPPORT is not available in KwaZulu Natal should have his head read. Ever since inception it has been available ALL OVER South Africa. 156.8.251.250 (talk) 19:46, 9 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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