Talk:List of presidents of the Parliament of Navarre

Unai Hualde

He stand for election under the coalition Geroa Bai, and he is a member of the Geroa Bai parliamentary group. So I think he should be listed as member of Geroa Bai rather than the Basque Nationalist Party. He is indeed a member of the Basque Nationalist Party, but the party itself is not listed as a group in Parliament. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gandalf Grisa (talk • contribs) 20:28, 20 June 2019 (UTC)

Political groups in legislatures mean nothing to ordinary people. Political alliances tend to be short lived. Geroa Bai has been around for less than nine years and is itself a successor to Nafarroa Bai which only existed for eight years. Political parties, on the other hand, tend to last longer - the Basque Nationalist Party has been around for more than a century. By including the alliance we are not giving readers who are not familiar with local politics a true sense of the how control of the Parliament of Navarre has varied between the various political forces in Navarre.--Obi2canibe (talk) 21:10, 23 June 2019 (UTC)

I would agree with that criteria for other cases, but I think the Navarre case is different. Geroa Bai would have still been called Nafarroa Bai if Aralar (former partner of Nafarroa Bai) had not registered the mark of Nafarroa Bai to avoid its continuation. Besides, the political map of Navarre seems much more stable nowadays and it looks like Geroa Bai will go on for many years. I would keep in mind that it is only an alliance formed by the Basque National Party, Atarrabia Group (local political group from the town Atarrabia) and Zabaltzen, an association including former independent people from Nafarroa Bai that is not even a political party. I think that what does not give readers a true sense of how the control of Parliament has varied is stating Basque National Party instead of Geroa Bai, as the Basque National Party has not reached more than 10.000 votes whenever it contested the elections under its name. On the other hand, Geroa Bai has been the second political force in Parliament and is now the third one. Another option could be to state Hualde's party as "Basque National Party (Geroa Bai)" or "Geroa Bai (Basque National Party)", keeping the colour for Geroa Bai on both cases. But Uxue Barkos is listed on her page as a member of Geroa Bai (not Zabaltzen), and the same applies to people from the Basque National Party of the Barkos Government. In my opinion, the fact that Hualde is a member of the most known party within Geroa Bai should not change this.~~Gandalf Grisa (talk) 08:48, 24 June 2019 (UTC) ~~

@Gandalf Grisa: Yes, there is some inconsistency in Spanish political lists but that does not mean we should perpetuate it. And we should remember that Wikipedia articles should cater to everyone. People outside of Navarre are far more familiar with the Basque National Party than Geroa Bai. Therefore, it is, in my view far better to give the long established parties than short lived alliances.

Any rule we agree upon should be general, rather than party specific. If we follow your suggestion, had Iñaki Iriarte been elected we would show him as a member of Navarra Suma rather than Navarrese People's Union. This would be misleading to anyone not familiar with Navarrese politics - they would not realise that the presidency of the parliament was held by a member of UPN, one of the two parties that have dominated politics in Navarre since the introduction of autonomy.--Obi2canibe (talk) 19:48, 24 June 2019 (UTC)

Well in fact Iñaki Iriarte is not a member of UPN, he went on the list as independent so the most accurate thing to do if he had been elected would be to show him as member or Navarra Suma, yes. Alright, I understand that the general rules may be confusing in Hualde's case for someone familiar with politics in Navarre, but most of the cases they work for the general public. However, I think we should consider stating members of parties within long-established coalitions as "Party (coalition)". Unai Hualde would be stated as "Basque National Party (Geroa Bai)", as well as members of the Barkos Government from the Basque National Party, members of Compromís within the Puig Government (currently stated as solely Compromís members) would be showed as "Valencian Nacionalist Bloc (Compromís)" or "Valencian People's Iniciative (Compromís)" and so on. This would not apply, for example, to ministers from the Puigdemont Government, as Junts pel Sí cannot be considered a long standing coalition. Gandalf Grisa (talk) 08:28, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

@Gandalf Grisa: I was with you until the last sentence. Who's to decide whether a coalition is long standing or not? You? Me? No, we must have a clear, objective rule that everyone can understand and follow rather leaving up to each individual editor's opinion of what constitutes "long standing". This will only result in confusion and disputes.--Obi2canibe (talk) 10:46, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

@Obi2canibe: I agree. One clear rule could be: standing more than one election of the same kind (Geroa Bai has contested the Navarrese regional elections of 2015 and 2019, as well as Spanish general elections of 2011, 2015, 2016 and 2019 and the local elections of 2015 and 2019. Compromís has contested every local and regional election since 2011, as well as Spanish general elections of 2011 and 2019 (and went on different coalitions in 2015 and 2016). Junts pel Sí, on the other hand, has only contested the 2015 catalan regional election. We could also propose a threshold higher than two. Other possible rules may be:

• Contesting more than one type of election. This would include Navarra Suma, who only contested the 2019 local, regional and general elections. It could also work with Junts per Catalunya, who contested the 2017 regional election and 2019 general election. Gandalf Grisa (talk) 09:10, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

@Gandalf Grisa: My view remains that, if we are going to include the alliance and party, we include all alliances rather than come with rules to exclude some. As I stated in my first comment, political alliances tend to be short lived and change names but in substance remain the same.--Obi2canibe (talk) 21:48, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

@Obi2canibe: OK, I see your point, but I still think thank we could do an exception with very short-lived alliances such as Junts pel Sí, which only contested one election, and it was created under very special circumstances. That is the only alliance I can think of those that I would not include. Gandalf Grisa (talk) 22:03, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

@Gandalf Grisa: I think we've reached the end of this discussion. I have lots to do and as this isn't a major issue for me so I'm going to let things be. Regards.--Obi2canibe (talk) 22:48, 3 July 2019 (UTC)