Jump to content

Talk:List of MAX Light Rail stations

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

please edit 2 opened stations.

[edit]

Hey,

Kings Hill/Southwest Salmon and PGE Park MAX light rail blue and red line stations opened in 1997. Not 1998.

Mr. Newton —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.21.128.59 (talk) 07:19, 2 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on List of MAX Light Rail stations. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 15:08, 18 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on List of MAX Light Rail stations. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 04:57, 26 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Northeast or NE?

[edit]

Officially, Trimet uses the abbreviation NE instead of the full name Northeast (as well as SW, etc.) on all of its branding. Should we rename these affected articles to conform to their standards? --Truflip99 (talk) 05:52, 26 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

They never should have been renamed from (e.g.) NE to Northeast in the first place, but that did occur (and vice versa!). The MAX station articles have all been renamed numerous times, by different editors each time – at least 5 or 6 times in the nine years I have been editing here – almost always without any discussion, just because someone saw a map, or station signage, or a schedule, or whatever, and falsely concluded that that one medium they saw shows the 'official' name, and that the name being used for the WP article was 'incorrect'. That's not what you, Truflip99 are doing with your question. I am just pointing out the format of the station names in the titles of the WP articles has been changed many times before, and this is likely to continue (due mainly to ignorance, IMHO), so you may be wasting your time proposing renaming any of them. What those other editors failed to understand is that (1) even TriMet uses different formats and abbreviations in different media, and alway has done so (and it's perfectly logical), and (2) media such as printed or online maps, which can be relatively easily changed (compared with signage at stations, which is very expensive to change) is likely to be changed in minor ways over time (e.g., a different person at TriMet may decide that "Avenue" should be abbreviate as "Ave" on maps). It's ridiculous to argue that the names of the WP articles on individual stations need to reflect such trivial changes, which, again, won't be consistent throughout all TriMet media, just the medium that one WP editor noticed! (Again, I am not referring to Truflip99's narrow question, but the question opened the door for a broader commment.) So, WP station articles should never be renamed just because one TriMet medium shows the names in a format that is different from the one used for the titles of the WP articles.
In short, there is no one "official name" for every MAX station that is used in all TriMet media. Different media (e.g. maps, signage at stations, destination signs) all have different considerations regarding space, the distance from which the user is reading the info., whether it is being used in a sentence or is a graphic, etc., so it's very logical for TriMet to use different versions for different types of uses. In the case of transit centers on the MAX system, I have long been annoyed that the WP article titles keep changing (every year or two, a different editor will rename the articles!), and it's always a version of the long name that virtually no one actually uses commonly – e.g. Gateway/Northeast 99th Avenue TC vs. simply "Gateway Transit Center", or "Hillsboro Central/SE 3rd Avenue Transit Center" vs. simply "Hillsboro Transit Center", when the two simple versions are the names in most common use by the public and the news media (and are even used by TriMet itself in schedules, such as this one for line 57). I consider the use of the long-form names in these cases to be contrary to WP:COMMONNAME.
Going back to Truflip99's specific question: Personally, I feel that spelling out (e.g.) NE as Northeast in the titles of these articles is unwarranted, and that the only place it really must be spelled out is in the first sentence of each article. So, I would support renaming with regard to that element of each station name in WP article titles, but whatever name is chosen, it's inevitable that another editor will come along in a year or two and change all of the titles again. I wish I knew of a way to prevent that (i.e. to prevent it occurring without any discussion). SJ Morg (talk) 18:37, 16 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Rename all station pages

[edit]

I have a proposal for renaming all MAX station names as follows, suggested here by YBG in part. All station names would match TriMet's official map here, with the following exceptions/additions:

  1. All station names would be abbreviated, so no-no to Southwest 5th, but a-okay to SW 5th
  2. All station names with slashes on the MAX chart would lose slashes as they mess with Wikipedia's page structure (e.g. enwiki thinks that the page Mall/Southwest 4th Avenue and Mall/Southwest 5th Avenue stations is in actuality a page named Southwest 5th Avenue stations which is a subpage of Southwest 4th Avenue which is a subpage of Mall). For example:
    1. Albina/Mississippi would become Albina-Mississippi or Albina Mississippi.
    2. Gateway/NE 99th Transit Center would become Gateway (NE 99th) Transit Center or something of the sort.
    3. Interstate/Rose Quarter would be Interstate Rose Quarter.
  3. All stations in the Transit Mall would retain the second street name, and any with additional context (such as PSU South or Union Station). For example:
    1. Union Station/NW 5th and Glisan would be Union Station (NW 5th & Glisan)
    2. PSU South/SW 6th and College would be PSU South (SW 6th & College)
    3. It is worth deciding on an individual basis whether keeping things like PSU Urban Center would keep the names long, might be worth doing something like PSU Urban Center stations
    4. Morrison/Southwest 3rd Avenue would be Morrison/SW 3rd, and not SW 3rd


The ultimate goal of this is to make the stations easier to find to a reader. As these pages have moved quite a lot, I hope that we can settle this once, and not worry about this ever again.

Do we have consensus to do this? TheTechie@enwiki (she/they | talk) 01:54, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Any renaming would have to follow WP:COMMONNAME first and foremost, regardless of what theoretical readers might expect; a simple redirect may be more appropriate for some cases. Parentheticals should not be used for street names and sub-names, as this is against WP:USSTATIONS and other longstanding policies on article names for train stations. The use of a forward slash is permitted as part of WP:NC-SLASH since the subpage function is disabled on the article namespace and only presents minor issues for talk pages and ancillary namespaces. I think this whole process is better handled with a much more thorough table of options with cited uses in both TriMet and secondary sources. SounderBruce 03:13, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
These article titles will never remain stable for a long period of time, because TriMet itself has long followed a practice of using slightly different forms of the names (e.g. abbreviating certain words, or not) in different media – the tall information pylons or signs at stations, the signs attached to the shelters at most stations, printed maps and schedules, online maps, news releases, destination signs on MAX cars, etc., and has also changed how it expresses the names of certain MAX stations from time to time in the 36+ years the MAX system has existed. That's why editors here can never agree on what the "official" forms of station names are; they fail to realize that there isn't just one official form of each name – it depends on the medium being used (e.g., all station names must be shortened on destination signs due to the space limitations of that medium). And the slashes should definitely be retained here, because TriMet includes them in all of its information media except the station platform signs – where the slash omission is simply a graphic style choice, since the two parts of the name separated by a slash everywhere else are shown on separate lines on the station-platform signs (and I see the slash as being implied by the graphic layout). And, as @SounderBruce: stated, slashes are acceptable in article titles. I agree that WP:COMMONNAME should be followed, but this can difficult to discern in some cases. For example, Hillsboro Central/Southeast 3rd Avenue Transit Center is referred to by TriMet itself as simply "Hillsboro Transit Center" or "Hillsboro TC" in most media for bus service (such as bus stop signs, destination signs), and in my experience that is also the name most commonly used by MAX riders for that station. SJ Morg (talk) 09:29, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hopefully anyone reading this also reads WP:USSTATIONS and the helpful comments by @SJ Morg here and in the #Northeast or NE? thread above, which I only read after making the suggestions referred to by @TheTechie. In particular, note that using one particular TriMet source is insufficient to establish WP:COMMONNAME since TM is inconsistent in how they refer to stations.
I am not prepared to do the heavy lifting in research or renaming, but I offer my suggestions to push this effort forward in subsections below describing (1) a proposed method for #Reaching consensus and avoiding rename churn and (2) a set of #Proposed article name principles.
— YBG (talk) 12:06, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reaching consensus and avoiding rename churn

[edit]

Here is my proposal for how to reach consensus and then avoid subsequent rename churn:

  1. Adopt some general principles first.
  2. When general principles are agreed, create a complete list of proposed changes.
  3. Optionally have an informal comment period.
  4. Submit a formal RM to reach consensus.
  5. Once consensus is reached, post a notice on each page that further renames should not be made without discussion and a new consensus being reached.
  6. If subsequent renames are made without consensus, they can be reverted with reference to the prior consensus.
  7. if subsequent consensuses are reached, they should be documented on this page.

Does this seem a reasonable path forward? — YBG (talk) 12:06, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support specifically this idea. TheTechie@enwiki (she/they | talk) 03:09, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Just my two cents: General principles sound good, but even TriMet doesn't have that. If we go by WP:COMMONNAME, I would argue that TriMet lexicon varies across the region. To make this easier, recommend narrowing scope starting with the downtown stations, then transit centers, then remainder. truflip99 (talk) 22:46, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Truflip99: Did you mean this comment to refer to § Using "/" in station names? If not, perhaps is should be moved to § Reaching consensus and avoiding rename churn. - YBG (talk) 04:20, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Moved. Apologies. --truflip99 (talk) 15:40, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with @Truflip99 about breaking this down, and think I should revise my proposal to repeat steps 2–5 three times, first downtown stations (possibly extending to Lloyd Center), then the transit centers, then the remainder. If there is no opposition, I will modify the proposal in a couple of days. YBG (talk) 17:43, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thoughts?? — YBG (talk) 17:54, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support --truflip99 (talk) 16:46, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed article name principles

[edit]

Here are some general principles I think can be generally agreed on:

  1. Use N, NE, SE, SW. The abbreviated and unabbreviated forms are spoken identically and the unabbreviated form is almost never used in print in Portland.
  2. Eliminate both "Ave" and "Avenue". This is seldom used in common speech for Portland roadways except when needed for disambiguation, eg 32nd Ave vs. 32nd Pl.
  3. Never use parens except as WP disambiguators, eg to disambiguate from stations on other systems.
  4. If further shortening seems like it might be helpful, search local media archives to see what name they use most.
  5. If two names seem equally plausible, prefer the shorter one, especially if it is a subset of the longer one.

Please indicate your support or opposition to this general approach. — YBG (talk) 12:06, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support this proposal. TheTechie@enwiki (she/they | talk) 03:09, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Partial support with the exception of #2: Cleveland Ave → Cleveland, Civic Drive → Civic, etc. doesn't really sit well with me. Recommend retaining abbreviated suffix. --truflip99 (talk) 22:47, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think we should change my rule 1 to one of these:
  • (a) Eliminate Ave and Avenue but retain all other street type suffixes (Ave, St, Pl)
  • (b) Eliminate all street types when a directional prefix (N, NE, E, SE, SW) is present; otherwise abbreviate them Ave, St, Pl, etc.
  • (c) Eliminate street types when the street name is a number
Thoughts?? — YBG (talk) 17:51, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support retaining all abbreviated directional prefixes and retaining abbreviated street suffix UNLESS two streets are named (e.g. E 102 Ave station and NW 6th & Davis station) --truflip99 (talk) 16:46, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Using "/" in station names

[edit]

I am of two minds about retaining or removing the "/" that TriMet uses in station names, eg to separate cross streets. I recognize that this char is allowed in page names in article space. However, the WP software doesn't treat it correctly. If you look at the top of Talk:Library/Southwest 9th Avenue and Galleria/Southwest 10th Avenue stations, you will see this breadcrumb navigation link:

< Talk:Library

This is incorrect and IMO should be avoided. The right way to do this would be to fix the software, but that is out of our control. I initially thought we should eliminate the / to avoid this, but am leaning toward retaining it. Whatever consensus is reached in this regard should be added to the list of #Proposed article name principles above.

Thoughts? — YBG (talk) 12:06, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Strongly am against keeping the slashes. TheTechie@enwiki (she/they | talk) 03:19, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This isn't a vote, there has to be a rationale. SounderBruce 21:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support keeping the slashes per their use by TriMet and secondary sources, as well as their use across Wikipedia without incident. The technical restriction does not apply to the mainspace and the talk page issues are incredibly minor compared to getting the name of the station correct for readers. SounderBruce 21:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support retaining as above. --truflip99 (talk) 16:46, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:List_of_MAX_Light_Rail_stations&oldid=1258966668"