Talk:List of Kokinshū poets

Notes

Needs clarification for:

• Why is citing the Kokinshū for works included in it considered a problem? All these "^{[non-primary source needed]}" tags look superfluous to me.
• I don't understand Japanese names, why are some broken up with hidden comments? is part of the name the surname? Example; 在原朝臣[comment]業平. This example is for Ariwara no Narihira but does not match the article on Ariwara no Narihira, 在原朝臣業平 v 在原 業平 (they look different, I can't read them)
• No KKTK numbers are given but it is mentioned in the lead.
• Theres a hidden comment "36 東三条の左のおほいまうちきみ 52 さきのおほきおほいまうちきみ" what does this mean?
• Is the list complete?

— Frayæ (Talk/Spjall) 09:00, 15 July 2018 (UTC)

Simply put, because I don't like it. Secondary sources are always preferable. If I didn't know from reading of various sources other than tois.nichibun.ac.jp that, for example, "Nara no Mikato" was the same person as Emperor Heizei I would not be justified in linking that article from his name.

See kabane; the style I established in List of Man'yōshū poets, based on that used by Nakanishi in a reliable secondary source to which I have easier access (pending a large cleaning of my house that will probably come closer to the end of this month) than anything on this collection.

Same as above, honestly. I'll WP:COMMENT it out of the lead for the moment.

These are poets whose titles/positions (not "names") are given on tois.nichibun.ac.jp but I can't figure out on a simple Google search who they are (and consequently how to incorporate them into the list). I plan on checking my annotated copy once I find it. I was going through the tois.nichibun page from top to bottom, but got through only the first 100 before getting tired and deciding to mainspace the page; those two are the only ones in the first 100, but presumably many more show up further down, hence why the invisible comment included a lot of white space.

No. Sorry for not tagging as such before mainspacing.

Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 09:14, 15 July 2018 (UTC)

@Frayae: Sorry. Forgot to ping you. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 09:14, 15 July 2018 (UTC)

@Hijiri88: Ok that makes sense, what do you think of the following column headers? — Frayæ (Talk/Spjall) 09:30, 15 July 2018 (UTC)

Given names beginning with "A"

Poet	Japanese name	Title in Kokinshū	Lived	KKTK number	Notes	Citations
Ariwara no Motokata	Japanese: 在原元方		Late 800s – 900s CE

References

• This also allows poets to be listed by their Kokinshū title leaving the poets name box blank at first. — Frayæ (Talk/Spjall) 09:37, 15 July 2018 (UTC)

Well, I really don't want to incorporate the ones in your fourth bullet point until I can check a reliable secondary source that either explains who they are or explains that no one knows who they are, in which case the title can be red-linked to an article that would address that question. (This is how List of Man'yōshū poets does it.) The poets are (I think?) given a whole bunch of titles in various texts of the Kokinshū with said titles written using different orthographies because of redundancy and the like, so including that as a heading would be messy; I'd prefer to just keep it to romanized name and Japanese name(s).

The last four columns all look fine, except it should be "KKTK number(s)" since each poem, not poet, has a number. Although I should admit that it could be a lot longer until I can find those numbers, hence why I'd rather leave it invisible to the reader in the short term. I'm a long way from being able to afford my own copy of the KKTK myself -- I just checked Amazon, and new the whole thing would cost close to two months' salary -- and it'll be at the very least a week until I can get to a library that has a copy. I'm fairly certain none of the books I could find by cleaning my apartment include the information. WP:NOTFINISHED and all.

Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 10:29, 15 July 2018 (UTC)