Talk:List of Game of Thrones episodes

Requesting opinions regarding the merger

I have been trying to trim the summaries to 200 words before performing the merger for a few days now, but i have found that is not an easy task, mainly because of the big number of separate storylines. I would like to present here the summary i wrote for the first season, and hopefully receive some comments and suggestions. This summary does not mention Bran's fall, the causes of Drogo's death and various other plot points that i do not consider as equally important. What do you think? Could and should more plot points be mentioned in 200 words? - Radiphus (talk) 05:50, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

Extended content

Ned Stark moves to King's Landing, after he accepts King Robert Baratheon's offer to serve as "Hand of the King". Ned discovers that Prince Joffrey and his siblings are not King Robert's children, but were incestuously fathered by Queen Cersei's twin brother Jaime Lannister. When King Robert dies, Ned does not recognize Joffrey as the rightful heir and is beheaded for treason. Meanwhile, Ned's bastard son Jon Snow joins the Night's Watch, an ancient brotherhood sworn to watch over the massive wall that separates the Seven Kingdoms from the dangerous unknown beyond, as wildlings and White Walkers threaten the land. In the continent of Essos, Viserys Targaryen marries off his sister Daenerys to the Dothraki warlord Khal Drogo, in exchange for an army to return to Westeros and take the throne. Viserys grows impatient and threatens Daenerys' life. Drogo kills Viserys, not long before he himself dies. Having been left alone, Daenerys steps into Drogo's funeral pyre with three dragon eggs. By daybreak, she is found unharmed in the ashes, carrying three dragon hatchlings.

@Radiphus: Yes, this is a good summary so thank you for that. It sufficiently explains all the major plotlines. I would recommend though that you explained King's Landing is the capital of Westeros and when writing future summaries, you ensure that they either follow on from this summary or explain everything not explained in this summary (i.e. when writing for season 2, you might want to mention Tywin made Tyrion acting hand, even though that was in season 1). TedEdwards 19:44, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

Plot summaries length

WP:PLOTSUM says that a summary should serve as a general overview that fills in on the major points and helps refresh a viewer's memory. It also says that the basic elements of a story are plot, character and theme. With that in mind, the summaries are structured around the storylines of the series' major characters, in a way that preserves continuity and links them together. Do you think that the plot summaries are too long or excessively detailed, and in that case, could you provide some examples of information that could be omitted? Radiphus (talk) 09:23, 5 April 2019 (UTC)

As far as I'm concerned, they're as short as they can reasonably get. In fact, I'm very iffy about some of the omissions. I'll ping the editor who insists on keeping the article tagged for excessive plot summary length: @TedEdwards: so that they can offer some actionable feedback on how to solve the problem we're apparently too blind to see. Should they fail to do so within the next 7 days, I'm planning to remove the tag again. 78.28.54.200 (talk) 08:20, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

I'll ping Drovethrughosts, as they mentioned they thought the plot lengths should be below 200 words when the successful proposal to put the plot summaries was being discussed (see archived discussion), so they might explain their rationale. However, you can also see from the archived discussion the reason why the plots were moved here was because they were orignally on the seasons articles, and MOS:TVPLOT states Individual season articles should use either episode tables with no more than 200 words per episode, or a prose summary of no more than 500 words, not both. So the reason I would like the plots to be 200 words or fewer is because if a reader wants the season plot in more detail, they can look at the season article. So the purpose of the plot summaries on this article is just to serve a very brief overview, with the opportunity to go into more detail on the season articles; in short, there is no good reason to explain season plots in full in two different places (i.e here and the episode table on season articles). --TedEdwards 09:47, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

Do you understand the difference between a season and an episode? Also, I asked for actionable feedback. "Reduce the number of words to [insert an arbitrary number not supported by any guideline]" hardly qualifies; to be clear, it would be no different if the number actually was supported by the guideline you quoted (it isn't) because guidelines are only that: guidelines, and need to be applied with common sense. 78.28.54.200 (talk) 10:00, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

I am very well aware of the difference between a season and an episode, but I'm not sure how that is relevant. My point is in citing MOS:TVPLOT is that what is does say is what I quoted in green, which is a) why the plot summaries are on this page in the first place and b) why I believe it is unnecessary to have a heavily detailed plot on this article. I mention the number 200, because when Drovethrughosts said those season summaries [on this article] would have to be significantly trimmed if they are moved, to roughly 200 words each. They would have to serve as more of an overview, than a detailed synopsis. in the orignal proposal to put the plot summaries in the article, no one disagreed at the time, and silence is consensus, and indeed Radiphus shortened the plots (although to slightly above 200 words) and made them as overviews. So there was, and might still be, a consensus to attempt to have the plots under 200 words and for the plots to serve an overview instead of a detailed synopsis. You are the first and only person I'm aware of who has disagreed with this. And therefore saying you'll revert my edit in 7 days if I don't offer "actionable feedback" (whatever that means) would be a WP:OWN stance (which is a policy btb.). --TedEdwards 10:47, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

1) MOS:TVPLOT wants 200 words for summaries of individual episodes rather than seasons; List_of_Game_of_Thrones_episodes contains summaries of entire seasons rather than individual episodes which means that quoting the guideline to justify your readdition of {{Long plot}} to List_of_Game_of_Thrones_episodes makes no sense (that's why I questioned if you knew the difference between a season and an episode); 2) The summaries are already at "roughly 200 words" (you do, of course, know that "roughly" means "approximately" rather than "less than") which means the "silent consensus" you refer to is that we should keep them more or less as they are at the moment, i.e. at "roughly 200 words." 3) If there are any OWNership issues here, they're entirely on your side of the fence (see Psychological_projection). Any nonsensical tag can be removed (see WP:DETAG) and so far you have failed to put forward any convincing reason to keep the one you seem to be so attached to. The very fact I gave you 7 days to respond should show you I'm willing to discuss the issue but with every message you leave here, I'm growing increasingly convinced there's not a whole lot to discuss as the arguments you put forward clearly support the removal of the tag. Just to be clear, nobody's opposed to your further shortening of the summaries (even after the tag is removed) so long as their quality is maintained; the only problem is with the tag itself whose presence in the article cannot be rationally justified. 78.28.54.200 (talk) 18:49, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

BTW, just out of curiosity, I've put the summaries through https://wordcounter.net/ and here are the results:

• Season 1 – 214 words (a.k.a. "roughly 200" words)
• Season 2 – 222 words (a.k.a. "roughly 200" words)
• Season 3 – 222 words (a.k.a. "roughly 200" words)
• Season 4 – 236 words (a.k.a. "roughly 200" words)
• Season 5 – 226 words (a.k.a. "roughly 200" words)
• Season 6 – 231 words (a.k.a. "roughly 200" words)
• Season 7 – 236 words (a.k.a. "roughly 200" words)

However you choose to look at it, the {{Long plot}} tag very clearly ought to be removed as the issue it indicates is non-existent in this article. 78.28.54.200 (talk) 18:59, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

My behavior is not WP:OWN, I described you statement saying you'll do what the hell you like in seven days as WP:OWN, because that's what it is (in a week, you would reverting, during a dispute, to you prefered version of the page). So don't accuse of have an OWN stance or saying the reason I'm accusing you is because of my ego (and you honestly you really need to read the articles you post as before now, I've never said my behavior wasn't WP:OWN before now). And what does "roughly" mean? Is 250, for instance, roughly 200? What about 236? It's subjective. I accept I misread Drovethrughosts, but I still believe the plots are too long, and one person has diputed with me on this, so the WP:STATUSQUO should remain until the consensus opposes the status quo (which there is no evidence for). However, I will shorten the plots so they are roughly 200 words according to most people's idea of roughly. --TedEdwards 22:53, 9 April 2019 (UTC) And just looking at your first comment, it seems you want the plots to be longer, which would mean they wouldn't be roughly 200 words to anyone's idea of roughly. --TedEdwards 22:54, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

I've shortened all the plots to below 200 words without removing too much detail IMO. That's not to say it's not okay to lengthen them to just above 200 words, it's just how it's ended up being. I've therefore removed the tag. --TedEdwards 23:32, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

I'm glad to hear that we'll be able to welcome season 8 without the episode list page defaced with that unsightly maintenance tag after all. 78.28.54.200 (talk) 01:24, 10 April 2019 (UTC)

I didn't realize matienance tags were so painful to look at. --TedEdwards 13:18, 10 April 2019 (UTC)