Talk:List of Foundation series characters

The narrator

A character missing from the list so far is Asimov's narrator, clearly a fictional persona distinct from the author. If anyone were so inclined to add them, they are discussed in this freely available secondary source: Gevers, Nicholas David (August 1997). Mirrors of the past : versions of history in science fiction and fantasy (PhD). University of Cape Town. pp. 58 bottom to 59. Cheers, Daranios (talk) 10:50, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

Massive removed content

To get rid of excessive plot summary information a great amount of content/number of characters was removed from the article. For those interested, the old content can still be seen here.

I believe that some of it could be restored and reused if proper, in this case usually secondary, sources can be provided, and the plot-summary content is balanced by analysis. Donald E. Palumbo's book An Asimov Companion: Characters, Places and Terms in the Robot/Empire/Foundation Metaseries, as well as other sources provided in the deletion discussion, could be used for that by anyone so inclined. Daranios (talk) 10:34, 28 October 2021 (UTC)

That may have been excessive. For example I tried to follow a link to Bail Channis, which comes here but now with no mention. There may be 41 similar examples.13:25, 20 April 2022 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C6:148A:9B01:3406:763C:125A:D47B (talk)

@Flaviusvulso: Thanks for your additions. It would be great, though, if plot summary could be balanced by commentary from the secondary sources as suggested above. The absence of such commentary almost got this article deleted in the past. Daranios (talk) 07:27, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Article Cleanup

Article could use some cleanup and beatification work done, make it a little better.

I'll work on this when I can and will update as I go, but for anyone looking to help here's what should be changed:

- Rather than have each character be it's own section have sections separated by books (moving characters to subsections) and when characters appear in multiple books have a section for characters that are either across multiple books or are mentioned frequently (like how Seldon is mentioned in every book even though he does not necessarily appear)

- Distinguish between major and minor characters, builds on first point currently minor characters are not distinguished from major ones, can be confusing for the reader

- More sources, isn't necessary to have each character or description be sourced in all cases especially if each character is a subsection rather than a section but for descriptions and the like especially when making external comparisons (ie. the section on the Mule when mentioning comparisons to real people from history sources those comparisons)

- Missing characters, not all characters are currently included to my knowledge please add any missing characters, characters that are not part of the foundation series but are part of Asimov's shared universe should not be included as this article is specific to the foundation series.

If there's anything I missed or you disagree with any of my suggestions please mention so here, I realise this may be a large change to the article so feel free to say if you disagree. Kyepedia (talk) 00:15, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Overhaul completed

So obviously I've just completed a major overhaul of this list into a standard format with sources, including most book characters and factoring in adaptations. There is still room for expansion in some places, and I have not tackled the sequels yet.— TAnthony^Talk 02:48, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

I like what you've done with the overhaul, but I think saying it's complete is a bit premature given the list is not exhaustive.

I think maybe there might be too much information given on some characters, and additionally I think some of the information relating to adaptations is too expansive given this list is for the books series not the television show (especially since they share little in common with each other).

Not looking to revert anything interested to hear your thoughts. Kyepedia (talk) 05:46, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, considering we have detailed articles about each novel, and very few characters appear in more than one, it's really redundant and pointless to have a list of book character blurbs along the lines of the previous format. The editors who slashed the list in 2021 actually showed considerable restraint; the basically unsourced list portion should have been deleted entirely, and the well-sourced lead merged into Foundation series. Unfortunately, the book-by-book format you suggest above is even more blatantly redundant of the book articles themselves. As far as completeness, I did mention I hadn't gotten around to Asimov's sequels yet, but I've also focused on notable characters that deserve mention, rather than everyone named in the books. Every listed character entry has been cited with secondary sources related to the novels or the TV series.

And speaking of the TV series, I would argue that it has lent considerable notability to Asimov's characters insofar as being worthy of a dedicated list. But having a separate TV series character list would underserve characters not included in it, and do some disservice to the franchise in general. Especially considering that the novel versions are not considered particularly complex by critics. I think of a list like this as a central location for information about individual notable characters in the franchose, and also a directory of sorts to lead readers elsewhere as needed. Adaptations of a character are still the character, and the non-bulleted entries in this list are basically comprehensive, "starter" character articles that can potentially be split out into expanded individual articles as necessary. I have a couple in mind. Perhaps this list should be renamed List of Foundation universe characters or something, but I don't know that we should be overthinking it.— TAnthony^Talk 18:47, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

I see you're point.

I think if this list is renamed it should be List of Foundation franchise characters rather than universe as that would cover the TV show and would avoid the inclusion of characters from Asimov's other series.

Might it be wise to reorder the list into alphabetical order or perhaps order of appearance? Kyepedia (talk) 02:29, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

It is in alphabetical order.— TAnthony^Talk 03:51, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

Yeah I forgot when ordering names alphabetically it's done by last name Kyepedia (talk) 08:34, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

"Psychologist" or "psychohistorian?"

In this article there are two references to Hari Seldon, and one reference to Ebling Mis, in which they are referred to as "psychologists." I think (but am not completely sure) that all of these should be changed to "psychohistorian." Asking for someone more familiar with the story details than I am to check on this, and make the correction if appropriate. 98.211.105.96 (talk) 20:36, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for your comment! Seldon is depicted as a psychologist and mathematician who invents psychohistory, so I believe the descriptions here are correct in context. In the case of Ebling Mis, the Gizmodo source specifically includes the phrase "the Foundation’s first real psychologist since its founding".— TAnthony^Talk 17:03, 17 November 2024 (UTC)