Talk:List of British engineers

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United Kingdom

	United Kingdom portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject United Kingdom, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the United Kingdom on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.United KingdomWikipedia:WikiProject United KingdomTemplate:WikiProject United KingdomUnited Kingdom articles
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Engineering

	Engineering portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Engineering, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of engineering on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.EngineeringWikipedia:WikiProject EngineeringTemplate:WikiProject EngineeringEngineering articles
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This article was nominated for deletion on 19 November 2015. The result of the discussion was Confusion.

This page was proposed for deletion by an editor in the past.

History

The edit history of this page is not complete, having been garbled by events associated with the AFD listed above. That AFD was originally called Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of British engineers but the AFD itself was garbled. The main events were:

00:36, 17 January 2013 Biscuittin creates the page as List of British engineers and their patents
07:33, 19 November 2015 Andrew Davidson moves the page to List of British engineers
08:15, 19 November 2015 Fram moves the page to List of British engineers (temp) and then starts manipulating the history
08:17, 19 November 2015‎ Fram recreates the page List of British engineers and cut/pastes content across from the original
04:33, 29 November 2015 Anthony Appleyard restores some of the history to the new page. The early history is now all at User:Biscuittin/List of lesser-known British engineers: Revision history

A full history of the original page up to the point when the manipulation started is:

08:20, 19 November 2015 Fram m .            . (10,015 bytes) (0) .    . (Fram moved page List of British engineers (temp) to List of British engineers and their patents: History split)
07:48, 19 November 2015 Fram .              . (10,015 bytes) (+441) . . (Nominated for deletion; see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of British engineers. (TW))
07:43, 19 November 2015 Andrew Davidson .   . (9,574 bytes) (+114) .  . (Further reading: separate years)
07:42, 19 November 2015 Andrew Davidson .   . (9,460 bytes) (+470) .  . (Further reading: new section)
07:33, 19 November 2015 Andrew Davidson m . . (8,990 bytes) (0) .     . (Andrew Davidson moved page List of British engineers and their patents to List of British engineers: simpler and shorter)
07:33, 19 November 2015 Andrew Davidson .   . (8,990 bytes) (-517) .  . (revert per WP:PROD "PROD must only be used if no opposition to the deletion is expected.")
08:13, 18 November 2015 Fram .              . (9,507 bytes) (+517) .  . (Proposing article for deletion per WP:PROD. (TW))
20:41, 20 July 2015     Pegship m .         . (8,990 bytes) (+60) .   . (sort)
15:15, 8 May 2013       Dthomsen8 .         . (8,930 bytes) (-23) .   . (References: Not a stub.)
15:14, 8 May 2013       Dthomsen8 m .       . (8,953 bytes) (-12) .   . (clean up, typos fixed: , ? , using AWB)
10:50, 21 January 2013  Biscuittin .        . (8,965 bytes) (+312) .  . (Filling in 3 references using Reflinks)
10:45, 21 January 2013  Biscuittin .        . (8,653 bytes) (+45) .   . (R: add ref)
10:42, 21 January 2013  Biscuittin .        . (8,608 bytes) (+462) .  . (R: expand section)
10:32, 19 January 2013  Biscuittin .        . (8,146 bytes) (-10) .   . (R: update)
23:36, 18 January 2013  Biscuittin .        . (8,156 bytes) (+242) .  . (Filling in 3 references using Reflinks)
23:34, 18 January 2013  Biscuittin .        . (7,914 bytes) (+345) .  . (C: expand section)
19:50, 18 January 2013  Biscuittin .        . (7,569 bytes) (+149) .  . (Filling in 2 references using Reflinks)
19:48, 18 January 2013  Biscuittin .        . (7,420 bytes) (+147) .  . (R: add text)
23:39, 17 January 2013  Biscuittin .        . (7,273 bytes) (+102) .  . (P: text) 
23:13, 17 January 2013  Biscuittin .        . (7,171 bytes) (+238) .  . (Filling in 3 references using Reflinks)
23:09, 17 January 2013  Biscuittin .        . (6,933 bytes) (+80) .   . (C: text)
23:02, 17 January 2013  Biscuittin .        . (6,853 bytes) (+196) .  . (C: expand section)
22:55, 17 January 2013  Biscuittin .        . (6,657 bytes) (+204) .  . (R: expand section)
19:22, 17 January 2013  Biscuittin .        . (6,453 bytes) (+238) .  . (Filling in 3 references using Reflinks)
19:20, 17 January 2013  Biscuittin .        . (6,215 bytes) (-15) .   . (R: update)
19:16, 17 January 2013  Biscuittin .        . (6,230 bytes) (-26) .   . (R: update)
19:08, 17 January 2013  Biscuittin .        . (6,256 bytes) (+54) .   . (R: links)
19:05, 17 January 2013  Biscuittin .        . (6,202 bytes) (+406) .  . (R: expand section)
01:32, 17 January 2013  Biscuittin .        . (5,796 bytes) (+136) .  . (Filling in 3 references using Reflinks)
01:30, 17 January 2013  Biscuittin .        . (5,660 bytes) (+48) .   . (tidy up)
01:17, 17 January 2013  Biscuittin .        . (5,612 bytes) (+67) .   . (P: text)
01:04, 17 January 2013  Biscuittin .        . (5,545 bytes) (+77) .   . (M: text)
00:40, 17 January 2013  Biscuittin .        . (5,468 bytes) (+1,518) .. (Filling in 13 references using Reflinks)
00:36, 17 January 2013  Biscuittin .        . (3,950 bytes) (+3,950) .. (new article)

No cut-and-paste happened, it was a history split which had all the relevant history until Anthony Appleyard did a restoration of some unneeded history, making this long list of older history necessary. Now, is anyone going to work on this article or should we delete it as an empty article? Fram (talk) 08:38, 30 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The process described at WP:PROPERSPLIT seems to involve cut/paste. Did Fram do this in some other way? Where is this described, please? Andrew D. (talk) 12:50, 30 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

WP:HISTSPLIT, of course. That's why I called it a history split from the very start... Fram (talk) 14:19, 30 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the link. Please note that this starts out by saying "Normally this should be accomplished through moves." That's what was done by moving the page to the present title and so all the splitting, copying, forking or whatever was quite unnecessary. Andrew D. (talk) 19:21, 30 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

, yes by moving the old page to one disambiguated title and the new one to another disambiguated title, that's why it says "Normally this should be accomplished through moves and disambiguation pages." and not just the partial sentence you quoted. Please read policies and guidelines in full, don't stop reading once you find a snippet that seems to support your position. In any case, if you have no plans to improve the remaining page anytime soon, you are right that all this was quite unnecessary, just like the hist merge you got performed (which necessitated this history-on-the-talk-page section) to include history which isn't used in the article anyway. Whatever rocks your boat, I guess... Fram (talk) 20:19, 30 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Aim

My aim is to create a list of lesser-known British engineers who do not yet have individual Wikipedia pages. I hope this will be a springboard for the creation of articles for these people. All entries will be referenced. Biscuittin (talk) 12:12, 20 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

That's what project space or user space are for. basing a list on whether or not they have a Wikipedia article is not allowed in the main space. Fram (talk) 12:23, 20 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Could you please give me a reference for this. Biscuittin (talk) 12:25, 20 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

WP:LISTPEOPLE, and even more directly the bottom of WP:CSC: ""Creation guide" lists—lists devoted to a large number of redlinked (unwritten) articles, for the purpose of keeping track of which articles still need to be written—don't belong in the main namespace. Write these in your userspace, or in a Wikiproject's space, or list the missing articles at Wikipedia:Requested articles." Fram (talk) 12:35, 20 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not wanting extensive discussion here while we still have the AFD running. For one thing, AFD pages are not normally deleted while this page is at risk of immediate deletion (Fram has already suggested speedy deletion). But as an example of an extensive list with lots of people without articles, see List of Alamo defenders – a featured list. Andrew D. (talk) 14:16, 20 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- Your point being...? Have you looked at WP:LISTPEOPLE, which I linked to directly above? "There are some common exceptions to the typical notability requirement: If the person is famous for a specific event, the notability requirement need not be met. If a person in a list does not have a Wikipedia article about them, a citation (or link to another article) must be provided to: a) establish their membership in the list's group; and b) to establish their notability on either BLP1E or BIO1E." This applies to the Alamo defenders list, not to the list at AfD (which is not about some specific event obviously). Fram (talk) 14:29, 20 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]