Talk:List of Americans of English descent

This article was nominated for deletion on March 6, 2007. The result of the discussion was no consensus.

Unmanageable?

According to the United States Census there are more German Americans, Irish Americans and African Americans than English descended Americans. All of those groups have lists and none need a generational limit. So I'm boldly removing the generational limitation on this list. Durova 15:58, 12 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

People classify themselves as Irish or German with less ancestry then they would English. I think if similar standards were applied English Americans would get enormous. Be that as it may if this is limited to those with substantial English ancestry though it might not be unmanageable.--T. Anthony 15:42, 26 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. JackO'Lantern 20:11, 12 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Absolutely. If one applied the same criteria to English-America that are applied to some other groups the numbers would overwhelmingly dwarf those groups. But Wiki should be consistent: the list of Irish-Americans is huge (apparently Judy Garland is "identified with the culture" and Eddie Murphy must be Irish - look at his surname!), whereas this list is very short. Where are the founding fathers for a start? If they are not English-American in the most part, who is?

They say that the English are the only grouping who don't have parades wherever they go in the world, and thus are not seen to be too prominent. Even the Welsh community in America made itself very much noticed when Bill Clinton made a comment about "Welshing on a deal"! So, I suspect that the reason Americans often don't realise/acknowledge an English heritage is that those English ancestors didn't insist on dressing up in St George crosses and parading about every 23rd of April. Also, English settlers were the majority in what is now the US, the Irish/German etc. were a minority and thus identified as Irish/German etc. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.86.138.193 (talk) 00:40, 23 March 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Category:English Americans

Why does the page "Category:English Americans" contain dozens of names not included on this list? 86.17.208.173 13:28, 4 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Categories are less strictly maintained than lists for whatever reason, but I might check about who in the cat could fit.--T. Anthony 15:54, 13 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ethnicity lists discussion

Please see discussion at Wikipedia:Village pump (policy) for current discussion of a potential policy to apply to all ethnicity lists on Wikipedia, including this one. JackO'Lantern 20:42, 11 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sources

I have sourced the list in accordance with Wikipedia's No Original Research and Verifiability policies. Basically, anyone described by a reliable source as "Finnish" or "Finnish-American" (i.e. as opposed to "of Finnish descent", "Finnish mother", etc.) is on the list. Here are the people I couldn't find anything for. If you have a reliable source that fits that please restore the names:

Mad Jack O'Lantern 08:43, 19 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

- Well, for Chris Guest there's one big clue: he's the 5th Baron Haden-Guest, and until recent reforms was a member of the House of Lords (look at his entry). Halle Berry's mother was born in Liverpool. Eastwood's daughter was born to Frances Fisher, who was born in England. And Richard Dawson? As English as John Smith.

- Tyrone Power, Sr. was born in England and descends from an English composer. Granted his father was Irish. Richard Dawson was born in England, but I believe became a citizen. Someone want to get the sources to put some of these names back.--T. Anthony 14:22, 27 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

- - I put Guest back. I might work on Dawson and Power later.--T. Anthony 05:32, 28 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Worthless?

This list is pretty worthless. It is woefully thin - the Finnish list is as big. The number of English-Americans is in eight figures: is this list the best we can do? An example of how all these lists are a mess: Tom Hanks' article basically says he is mostly of English descent, with some Welsh. Guess which list he is on? Yet on the category for actors he is listed as English. Which is it?! 86.17.246.75 22:51, 16 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The reason this was thin when I edited on it is because there was great concern that such a list would be enormous beyond reason if we included everyone who was just of English descent. So, back then anyway, we were mostly adding people who called themselves English-American or had lived in England before living in the US. It's possible that concern is still keeping this from getting as large as you'd like.--T. Anthony 14:30, 26 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

For the most part, the reasons the list is thin are: The majority of people who are of predominantly English descent had ancestors who moved here so long ago that it is impossible to indeed confirm that they are of English descent. I'd bet, to use a random example, that Nancy Grace, John Mark Karr and Patsy Ramsey are all of mostly English descent, though this would never be mentioned in any source so we can't verify it. The other reason this list is short and is indeed missing a large number of people who could be verified as English Americans, is that there are no English American editors adding as many names as possible, as we have on so many other X-American lists. Mad Jack 16:03, 26 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Possible I suppose. My father is almost purely of English descent with a bit of Scotch and Northern Irish. I'd imagine most English-descended Americans like me never identify as English-American. Mostly I just mention being almost exclusively English, Dutch and Belgian as a source of embarrassment. List of Dutch Americans was quite small too as many don't identify as that either.--T. Anthony 14:13, 27 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It doesn't matter whose father, mother, etc. was English. IF you have a source that actually describes the person as "English American" (or "British American") or "English" (if they are also "American") then you can put them on the list, if not, no. So no "English mother", "English descent", etc. Tom Hanks' ancestors immigrated here centuries ago. I seriously doubt anyone, including himself, considers Hanks "English American" (but feel free to prove me wrong with a good source). This is the same as is being done with all of these lists to put them in proper shape. Mad Jack 06:06, 17 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

George W. Bush?

Isn't George W. Bush an English American?

I bet he'd be mightily surprised to be called an "English American". He's basically an "American" (as, I suppose, is anyone whose ancestors moved here over 300 years ago. Much like, English people who have Norman French ancestors are not "French English" people) Mad Jack 16:54, 23 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

English Americans are citizens of the United States whose ancestry originates in the northwest European nation of England.

Actually English Americans for Wikipedia purposes are those people described by reputable sources as English Americans. Obviously at some point in time people become just "Americans", with no little tag in front of them (which is exactly why you will never, ever find a reputable source that would call George Bush an "English Ameriacn"). Otherwise, you may as well call half the population of Britain "French-British" because some of their ancestors were Norman. Mad Jack 16:54, 4 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Very few Norman people actually came to settle in england. They just had a huge influence over the culture and running of the country at the time. They replaced all the nobility in England so most of the English nobility can trace their roots back to France. The general population of England was not replaced or diluted by mass immigration.T.roome 12:59, 21 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Never put historical Normandy in the same sentence with French, Normans had a different ethnicity language and culture, the French could never conquer england, it's clear that the Normans were of Scandinavian stock when you look at their ability to trade and travel well across seas.Davido488 (talk) 01:20, 18 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Very true, the Normans (or Norsemen) had only settled in what is now France less than 100 years before The Battle Of Hastings so weren't that different ethnically than the English population (Anglo-Saxon/Viking). In any case as has been pointed out only a few mainly aristocrats came to England and amongst the English people their influence was not even sufficient to shift English from its place as the vernacular of the people. And eventually a couple of nundred years later even the Anglo-Norman court gave in and officially adopted English.

And you could apply the same standard to "Irish" Americans, a more recent immigration on the whole granted- but what's the difference?

American English?

I wonder if we should have a corollary list of American-English people like Henry James and T. S. Eliot.--T. Anthony 10:19, 8 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Suspect entries

"Talib Kweli - His mother was an English professor" I went to his article here at wikipedia. It says just this but "English" links to English studies, and there is no external reference. Davy Jones - "English" is sourced, "American" is not. He definitely seems to be an American resident but nothing mentions him being an American national. A Geek Tragedy 17:52, 24 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Massive blanking

See this edit. Badagnani (talk) 21:47, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I want create new section to talk about that, but you are in the point Im about to recreate "list of english americans" and then if any rejections in view will be posted here, thanks Its Immoral to recreate a page with re-editing it with a clear english persons. I'll create the true page with who hold english heritage in america —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.251.7.52 (talk) 12:43, 11 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Referenced Only" Editing for This Page?

This page has been beset with repeated vandalism and massive blanking. I therefore propose that only referenced material be allowed for any new additions for this particular page. Without references, how are we to know who is genuinely English, and who is not? Trasel (talk) 22:20, 2 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

US Presidents

If you look at the Irish American article, you'll find that a very large number claim to be of Irish ancestry, even though in most cases it's very remote. But I imagine that nearly every one (except JFK) had some English blood. But they don't make an issue of it. Since the war, only Jimmy Carter visited his ancestral home (in north-east England). Mind you, most Americans don't use the word "English" much (except about muffins or the language), preferring the inaccurate use of the word "British". Millbanks (talk) 13:21, 19 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sourcing

This really needs massive sourcing. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 20:59, 12 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Recent reversion

Sorry about the recent reversion that went back pretty far, but there was excessive removal of referenced entries without any explanation by IP 98.15.137.71., who will be blocked from editing soon if this does not stop now.
— ^.`^) Paine Ellsworth ^diss`cuss (^^`. 12:08, 18 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

List of English-American

This is a list of notable English-Americans who do not appear on the original list. All those people considered by different sources like English-American (ie, people who are direct descendent of English, having a English father, to a closer ancestor English, etc...), excluded from the original list, on the this list. Please, if you have a reliable source to accept or reject these people as English-Americans indicate this:

Sean Astin
Mackenzie Astin
Linda Lee Cadwell
Roy E. Disney
Patty Duke
David Hasselhoff
Brandon Lee
Shannon Lee
Viggo Mortensen (English-American mother's side)
Nia Peeples
Freddie Prinze Jr —Preceding unsigned comment added by Isinbill (talk • contribs) 20:03, 3 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Ian Somerhalder
Tom Welling
Bruce Willis
Ed Wood

--Isinbill (talk) 00:00, 24 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Taylor Swift

She's of English descent, she must be, Swift is an English name.86.186.3.245 (talk) 04:15, 21 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

WorldConnect

I have removed the citations to the WorldConnect project at Rootsweb. WorldConnect is a project where anyone, including your mad aunt Milly can upload their decent work or complete fantasy genealogy. The entries are not vetted, not edited, not checked, not approved in any way. The persons are amateur, previously unpublished, not expert in their field and it's not a third-party publication. Just a host. As such these works are not acceptable sources for Wikipedia.Wjhonson (talk) 16:17, 21 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

American actors of English descent

I added some American actors of English descent like Shannen Doherty, Garry Marshall, Beau Bridges or George Clooney but they have been removed from the list. May I know why ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.214.55.75 (talk) 20:42, 13 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

List of English Americans

Why is this list not named "List of English Americans" to match all its sibling articles in Category:Lists of American people by ethnic or national origin? Hmains (talk) 03:04, 28 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I believe it originally was or that I started it as such. People got into a "thing" about preferring "of XYZ descent" and this might have been moved at some point due to that. (Looks like 24 January 2011‎ by User:Bulldog123) Then it never got moved back.

Originally I also hoped that all the names be sourced and preferred that they be at least half-English. That last was because a fairly huge percent of African Americans, Southern whites, Mainers, Vermonters, and Utahans have at least some English ancestry so I thought it would be unwieldy to just do "anyone with any English ancestry."--T. Anthony (talk) 07:22, 21 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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List cleanup needed

Many names in this list aren't supported by verifiable claims in the person's target article. I'm going to tag the article for now, so it's clear to readers not to rely on it. Then, if I can gird myself for the tedium, I'm going to check each name. (If anyone else wants to join in, a caution: the claim of English descent in some BLPs were added unsourced and must also be checked against any cited refs.) Schazjmd (talk) 15:34, 5 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

For clarity, when a target article makes no mention of English ancestry, I'm using "not supported by target article" as an edit summary. ~~When the target article details ancestry but doesn't mention English, I'm using "contradicted by target article" as an edit summary.~~struck because I switched to modifying groups in the list at a time and just used "not supported" Schazjmd (talk) 16:33, 5 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I also plan to remove the poorly-defined annotations (mostly added to actors and musicians), like "partly", "mainly", "a small bit", etc. Schazjmd (talk) 20:09, 5 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Btw, although this list has fewer than 30 page watchers, for any that there are, I apologize for what this is doing to your watchlists. I'm doing the list name-by-name so I can feel most confident that I'm not inadvertently removing the wrong entries. But if this is causing a problem for anyone else, ping me and I'll try to do a section at a time. Schazjmd (talk) 00:14, 6 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]