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Archive 1Archive 2

"A Star is Reborn" Episode Number

Per WP:CHALLENGE, I am hereby challenging the verifiability of the claim in the § Season 11 (2014–15) section that "A Star is Reborn" would be episode "13" of the season. Per WP:V, I will remove the number "13" from the table a week from today, if there's still no inline citation for that number "13". The only reference currently used for "A Star is Reborn" is for the episode name, and that particular page at The Futon Critic does not contain "13" or "thirteen". I've tried to find a reliable, published source for the episode number, and from what I can tell it is episode "10". Here are some sources of varying quality/value:

Again, one week from today I will remove the number "13", unless someone found a reliable, published source for that number. If there's nothing proving a number is accurate, providing it is misleading. This is against what we strive for. --82.136.210.153 (talk) 07:40, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

The sources that you are looking at, some of which are not reliable sources, appear not to include the final 3 episodes that aired on Fox prior to the move to TBS. After a long discussion consensus was to include those episodes with the TBS episodes as part of season 11. Three episodes on Fox + 10 episodes on TBS makes 13, not 10. --AussieLegend (✉) 08:38, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
You didn't include a link to the "long discussion", but either way we need reliable, third-party sources. We can't do our own calculations and then come up with "13". If it's not number 13, then it's not number 13. If this means that one or more episodes have the same number, then so be it. We cannot use "13" without reliable, third-party sources. --82.136.210.153 (talk) 09:13, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
And seeing you wrote "10 episodes on TBS", this probably explains why several of the more reliable sources that I mentioned above are at "season 12". This is how we create Wikipedia. If reliable, third-party sources say "A Star is Reborn" is episode 10 of season 12, then we shouldn't be doing original research and make it episode 13 in season 11. That's not how Wikipedia works. --82.136.210.153 (talk) 09:19, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
You can't say 'oh we had a long discussion and came up with number 13'. No, you look at reliable, third-party sources and see that TV.com, OVGuide and TV Guide say it's episode 10 of season 12. Even TBS as a primary source is usable here, and it too says it's episode 10 of season 12. Wikipedia does not publish original thought: all material in Wikipedia must be attributable to a reliable, published source. See WP:OR. --82.136.210.153 (talk) 09:21, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
I was a significant participant in the season number discussion [User:108.226.144.192] and to my knowledge, no consensus was reached.[10] When people began to get frustrated at the lack of progress towards a decision, the matter was dropped, not solved. Admittedly, part of the problem centered around the concurrent debate on fixing the episode season count, which took an unpredictable turn when TBS revised their own official season listings. In addition, the PR branch of TBS has been completely devoid of updates since October.[11] 2602:306:CE29:B50:D887:58B7:419:D37B (talk) 02:09, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
EDIT:The current revision originated on October 4th when TBS updated their "Season Count" to follow the short first season model, placing the last three episodes by FOX as "Season 11".[12] It was incorrectly assumed before TBS began their own airings that they would incorporate the three into "Season 11", when TBS actually made them a stand-alone season and started theirs with "Season 12". 2602:306:CE29:B50:4894:2E3B:D0B5:3642 (talk) 14:56, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
Contrary to popular belief, episodes aren't usually assigned episode numbers by the networks. They have production codes but these don't affect the airing order. Instead, episode numbers are generally added by TV listing guides based on the order in which they are advertised to air, and guides can vary significantly. Some, like The Futon Critic don't bother to use them at all and others just list an overall number. Because of that, we don't use these in episode lists. The episode numbers that we use here are simply to aid in listing and counting episodes and usually follow the sequence in which episodes are aired. This applies to both the overall episode number, "Number in series", and the "Number is season". The number is sequential, which is why "A Star is Reborn" is listed as episode 13, since there are 12 episodes before it. And, for the record, this is how it is done in the vast majority of TV lists. If you want to change this, you really need to take it up at [{WT:TV]]. Changing the sequence to read "1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 10", which is what you seem to be arguing for, just doesn't make sense.
"you look at reliable, third-party sources and see that TV.com" - Tv.com, is not a reliable source. Neither is imdb. --AussieLegend (✉) 16:25, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
I believe User:82.136.210.153 intended proposal was to change to the 3-episode 11th season model, currently used by TBS.[13] They don't seem to have a problem tagging these as "Seasons". Plus, unlike FOX, their public relations department is not issuing contradictory information on the season count, so that is about as official as it comes. 2602:306:CE29:B50:4894:2E3B:D0B5:3642 (talk) 01:54, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
If that was what 82.136.210.153 meant, that might have been acceptable, but apparently his/her intention was to be purely disruptive, by removing only that episode number.[14] --AussieLegend (✉) 11:24, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
AussieLegend, you continue to write which sources you believe are unreliable, and 100% ignore all the reliable sources mentioned in this thread. I've applied the change I said I would at the start of this thread. --82.136.210.153 (talk) 10:51, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
It's not a case of ignoring sources, and I have not "continue[d] to write which sources [I] believe are unreliable". In fact I only mentioned them once, since you are of the impression that they are reliable, when they are not. As I've explained, we don't necessarily follow the sources' numbering formats in Wikipedia articles. 2602:306:CE29:B50:4894:2E3B:D0B5:3642 has suggested a possible resolution, which would require splitting the article, not just deleting a single episode number, and would have to be completed in accordance with WP:SPLIT and WP:CWW. --AussieLegend (✉) 11:24, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
No, from the start I wrote "Here are some sources of varying quality/value". And seriously, WP:AGF, don't write that my "intention was to be purely disruptive". I'm trying to help Wikipedia by getting rid of numbering that's clearly just made up by a bunch of people. We need to start somewhere, so I picked one episode. Can we agree to change to a 3-episode 11th season model? This would be a very good solution and we'd have the sources to back it up. --82.136.210.153 (talk) 11:36, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
And then you said you look at reliable, third-party sources and see that TV.com. When you make an edit like this, deleting a single episode number after the episode numbering system was explained to you, that's disruptive, especially as you did not touch the 11 other similar episodes. Despite the discussion, you've arbitrarily decided that your word is law and gone ahead and done what you said you were going to do even while the matter was under discussion and your proposed change was clearly opposed. Sorry, that is the very essence of being disruptive. As for splitting the article, as I said, that has to be done strictly in accordance with WP:SPLIT and WP:CWW. --AussieLegend (✉) 12:38, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
You continue to write which sources - in this case TV.com - you believe are unreliable, and 100% ignore all the reliable sources mentioned in this thread. Is your opinion that all the sources are unreliable? Sure, "episode numbering system was explained" and what we have now was made up by people on Wikipedia. And thanks for ignoring the question "Can we agree to change to a 3-episode 11th season model?" We are making progress. --82.136.210.153 (talk) 12:59, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
Déjà vu. I've already responded to this above. Do I need to clutter up the page by repeating what I said only a short time ago? --AussieLegend (✉) 14:05, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
If the last couple of posts are an indication of progress towards a split of the 11th season, I'm all for it. 2602:306:CE29:B50:4894:2E3B:D0B5:3642 (talk) 15:36, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

For your information, I've created a related thread at WT:TV#Episode number 13. I do not appreciate you (AussieLegend) calling my intention "purely disruptive", and it's clear to me that you will continue to focus on unreliable sources and that you don't want to discuss a possible 3-episode 11th season solution here. You also ignored Wikipedia policy by undoing my edit. It's time we get input from other editors. --82.136.210.153 (talk) 02:42, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

Given the comments by 2602:306:CE29:B50:4894:2E3B:D0B5:3642 and me regarding splitting this article, you now seem to be making a mountain out of a molehill instead of just getting on with it. --AussieLegend (✉) 03:26, 29 March 2015 (UTC)
If that is a green light, I'm willing to do it. 2602:306:CE29:B50:A930:9391:A241:418 (talk) 21:46, 29 March 2015 (UTC)
It's a green light as long as attribution is provided as explained in WP:CWW. --AussieLegend (✉) 23:46, 29 March 2015 (UTC)
I'm not sure of the proper format for that. Can someone please aid me here? 2602:306:CE29:B50:A930:9391:A241:418 (talk) 23:57, 29 March 2015 (UTC)
A two person discussion gives you no right to go on with this move. This needs to be discussed further than this. This is not a consensus. Koala15 (talk) 00:08, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
It's a three person discussion and it's been going on for two weeks. Nobody who wanted to participate has been excluded. Also, it's not a move. I'm well aware of the earlier discussion, which was fuelled by the fact that TBS decided to call its first season "season 11". That has now changed and TBS is calling the episodes "season 12", and reliable sources are following suit, as links posted by 82.136.210.153 demonstrate. If we didn't split the article, the season after season 11 would be season 13. I don't see any reason for not splitting the article. --AussieLegend (✉) 02:18, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
We discussed this thoroughly last year when the season started and came to the conclusion it was season 11. I don't understand the sudden change of heart. Koala15 (talk) 02:21, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
The discussion then addressed the issue of whether the final 3 episodes on Fox were part of season 10 or season 11 and it was decided that they were season 11. You actually argued that they should be in season 10. At the time TBS was claiming that its episodes were season 11 and that was causing issues as some wouldn't accept that Fox and TBS could both have episodes as part of the same season. --AussieLegend (✉) 03:34, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
I'd like to point out again that I was a participant in the original discussions last fall (I have no idea why my IP suddenly shifts periodically, it is not my doing), and at the time, there was no clear indication as to what direction TBS would take. Prior to Octobers 1st, TBS followed the long first season model before switching, then they set up the final three FOX episodes as "Season 11", which led many of us to wrongly assume that they would be included with the TBS episodes. When TBS started their own airings, they listed theirs as "Season 12", but by that time, the entire original discussion had collapsed. 2602:306:CE29:B50:A930:9391:A241:418 (talk) 13:59, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

new seasons

somebody explain why my edit was reverted to make this page now hopelessly out of date or i will continue to undo your reverting of my edits — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bomberswarm2 (talk • contribs) 21:41, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

Your edits were reverted because of the two guidelines that were linked to in the edit summary, WP:TVUPCOMING and WP:TVOVERVIEW.[15] Per WP:TVUPCOMING, When a series is renewed for an additional season, a section is not to be added for that upcoming season until such time as an episode table can be created for the season. The new section contained no episode table so should not have been created. TVUPCOMING also says years should not be added to said section heading until an episode actually airs in that calendar year. Since no episodes have yet aired in 2016-18, the section heading should not contain those years. Per WP:TVOVERVIEW, A new season should be added to the overview table only after an episode table has been created for that season. (See: WP:TVUPCOMING) That should be self explanatory - No valid episode tables for 2016-18 have been created so a row should not be added to the series overview table.
"i will continue to undo your reverting of my edits" - That constitutes a threat to edit war. Edit warring will only achieve one thing, you will be blocked for such actions, especially if the edits continue to contravene guidelines. --AussieLegend (✉) 06:09, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

The nightmare continues

TBS has reconfigured its season counts YET again, now arriving at 10 completed seasons.[16] 2602:306:CE29:B50:9507:1375:13C3:2DD5 (talk) 02:29, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Let's keep this correct

Why was the first 4 episodes of Season 2, as confirmed by Fox, aired on Sunday as the new Season and with Season 2 in the production code number put at the end of the Season 1 listings? LEt's keepit right people. Roger n' Me is the first episode of season 2. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.192.14.224 (talk • contribs) 23:33, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

ACtually it isnt. the official season 2 starts in the fall, while these are production season 2 episodes they are still part of season 1, as production codes dont always line up with broadcast seasons. Things became messed up because season 1 started in the summer instead of teh fall so extra episodes were needed, regardless this should now be considered season 1 til the end of the may episodes — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.243.130.10 (talk • contribs) 03:13, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Cite your sources. As I understand it, the first season is made up of 23 episodes, 19 of which were from the first production cycle and 4 from the second production cycle. If you have a information from a source confirming by Fox (as you say) that the first 4 episodes of the second production cycle are actually part of season 2, please share this source and update the article to reflect it, including in your update a citation of the source. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Brian8d8 (talk • contribs) 01:20, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Second responder is correct. the way its labeled is incorrect. what you have as season 1 and season 2 is actually all season 1. regardless of when it was created it is sold in retail stores and online as season 1. you can see for yourself on fox's website. as of today (sun march 31, 2013 season 9 has NOT aired. please correct so that season 1 and 2 are consolidated. change season 3 to season 2, season 4 to season 3 and so on. https://itunes.apple.com/us/tv-season/american-dad-season-1/id253456126. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.242.177.88 (talk) 17:38, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

The current form of having a 7 episode season 1 and a 3 episode season 11 is the way that TBS, which now took over AD, says. Source: http://americandad.wikia.com/wiki/Episode_Guide 95.89.188.13 (talk) 18:03, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

Wikis are not reliable sources. DonIago (talk) 00:54, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

This discussion is about an issue from 9.5 years ago. It really doesn't need to be resurrected. --AussieLegend (✉) 09:12, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

Seasons according to TBS

TBS just announced they picked up the show for the 2016-2017 and 2017-2018 television years, but then dub the seasons as Season 12 and Season 13. Meaning the episodes that just aired this past year are Season 10, and the episodes that will be airing early next year are season 11. Not sure if we want to update this to the original count (where Season 1 consists of the first set of episodes with a break in the middle, and TBS/FOX both airing season 10). http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/american-dad-renewed-two-more-818182 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.215.9.153 (talk) 02:55, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

Writing seasons and broadcast seasons are two different animals. 2602:306:CE29:B50:D85A:BFAD:C537:4C3A (talk) 21:45, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

All credible sources from IMDB to Fox and TBS all list the seasons as currently 1-11 as of December 2015, with season twelve set to begin on January 25th 2016. The current listing is in error and needs to be fixed, since the article is obviously about the show and not the screenplays. It is confusing at best, but ultimately erroneous. 24.180.174.240 (talk) 22:17, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

The current format has been discussed at length. The list displays the episodes as they were aired, in the seasons in which they were aired. We can't rewrite history and reorganise every time TBS changes its mind, which has been about 3 times so far. --AussieLegend (✉) 11:45, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
When Family Guy came back for its fourth season, it aired the same way that American Dad's first season did - a set of episodes in the spring, then a summer hiatus, before returning for a full-length run. This is treated as one season for Family Guy, and should be the same for American Dad. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.5.177.186 (talk • contribs) 2 January 2016, 06:33 (UTC)

Episode and season numbering as historical record

We are talking about broadcast seasons here, not production seasons. I think we can agree on one thing: you can't rewrite history. When an episode airs, the network says if it's a new season or not, and the air dates determine the episode numbering. It's a matter of historical record, etched in the pages of TV Guide for eternity. If FOX called it a new season at the time, then it's a new season forever. The network can renumber things later all they want, and it doesn't change a thing about the original airing.

So where are people getting the idea that FOX said the Sept. 11 2005 episode was the beginning of season 2 rather than a continuation of season 1? I can find absolutely no evidence of this. FOX's press release for the 2005-2006 season make no mention of American Dad being a new season.[1] FOX's PR announcement for that Sept. 11 episode does not call it the season premiere.[2] FOX's PR announcements for the Sept. 11 episodes of The Simpsons and Family Guy do list them as being season premieres.[3][4] FOX announced every other American Dad season premiere as a season premiere. [5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13]Five of the first seven episodes were repeated between Sept. 11 2005 and Sept. 10 2006.[14]

Where is the evidence that Sept. 11 2005 started a new season? Cite your sources. The fact that Wikipedia's had it this way for so long is irrelevant. This article should accurately reflect history. If new evidence is found, we *should* change the article. Balazer (talk) 22:27, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ "FOX Announces New Primetime Slate for 2005-2006 Season". Retrieved 2016-02-09.
  2. ^ "HALEY ISN'T HER FATHER'S DAUGHTER ON "AMERICAN DAD" SUNDAY, SEPTEMBER 11, ON FOX". Retrieved 2016-02-09.
  3. ^ "MARGE TAKES A JOURNEY OF SELF DISCOVERY ON THE SIMPSONS SEASON PREMIERE SUNDAY, SEPTEBER 11, ON FOX". Retrieved 2016-02-09.
  4. ^ "PETER DISCOVERS BRIAN IS QUITE A DOG WHEN IT COMES TO THE LADIES ON THE SEASON PREMIERE OF FAMILY GUY SUNDAY, SEPTEMBER 11, ON FOX". Retrieved 2016-02-09.
  5. ^ "STAN AND STEVE GO FOR THE GOLD ON THE SEASON PREMIERE OF "AMERICAN DAD" SUNDAY, SEPTEMBER 10, ON FOX". Retrieved 2016-02-09.
  6. ^ "THE SMITH FAMILY GOES ON A CIA VACATION ON THE SEASON PREMIERE OF "AMERICAN DAD" SUNDAY, SEPTEMBER 30, ON FOX". Retrieved 2016-02-09.
  7. ^ "ROGER CELEBRATES HIS BIRTHDAY ON THE SEASON PREMIERE OF "AMERICAN DAD" SUNDAY, SEPTEMBER 28, ON FOX". Retrieved 2016-02-09.
  8. ^ "STEVE RELIVES THE VIETNAM WAR ON THE SEASON PREMIERE OF "AMERICAN DAD" SUNDAY, SEPTEMBER 27, ON FOX". Retrieved 2016-02-09.
  9. ^ "HAYLEY GETS HITCHED ON THE SEASON PREMIERE OF "AMERICAN DAD" SUNDAY, OCTOBER 3, ON FOX". Retrieved 2016-02-09.
  10. ^ "STAN ENDS UP IN HOT WATER ON THE "AMERICAN DAD" SEASON PREMIERE AIRING SUNDAY, SEPT 25, ON FOX". Retrieved 2016-02-09.
  11. ^ "ROGER FALLS FOR HAYLEY ON AN ALL-NEW "AMERICAN DAD" SUNDAY, SEPTEMBER 30, ON FOX". Retrieved 2016-02-09.
  12. ^ "STAN IS ASSIGNED A HIGH-STAKES MISSION ON THE SEASON PREMIERE OF "AMERICAN DAD" SUNDAY, SEPTEMBER 29, ON FOX". Retrieved 2016-02-09.
  13. ^ "ROGER GIVES UP HIS BAR...AND MOVES IN WITH GREG AND TERRY ON THE ONE-HOUR SEASON PREMIERE OF "AMERICAN DAD" SUNDAY, SEPTEMBER 14, ON FOX". Retrieved 2016-02-09.
  14. ^ "American Dad Listings". Retrieved 2016-02-09.
This has been discussed at length previously. I suggest you look through the archives of this page as well as the archives at the main article. --AussieLegend (✉) 05:38, 10 February 2016 (UTC)
I'm not interested in old discussions. I'm interested in references. The main article does not cite any references to support its season numbering. Balazer (talk) 18:57, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
Previous discussions are extremely important as they demonstrate consensus, which is how we make decisions on Wikipedia. --AussieLegend (✉) 22:50, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
Agreed, but those discussions did not lead to the article having references to support that consensus. Consensus alone is not sufficient. Any challenged material needs citations. If you are aware of any sources supporting the current numbering scheme, please add citations to the article or to this discussion. In the absence of such sources, I could change the article and end the old consensus based on my new references. Balazer (talk) 00:07, 12 February 2016 (UTC)
You could change the article but you would be warned about editing against consensus. A single editor doesn't have the right to override a previously established consensus. If you feel so strongly about this you need to establish a new consensus. When you look through the relevant discussions you'll see that reliable sources were listing the seasons exactly as they are listed here. --AussieLegend (✉) 04:11, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

Combining the Fox Season 10 with the TBS Season Eleven

Straight to the point, The three episodes of the show Fox aired after cancelling the show and before TBS picked up the show are now being treated as part of the same season as the fifteen episodes shown by TBS in post-airing distribution.

http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NGYID4W?ref_=aiv_dp_season_select

Which can be seen at the above link by how they are being served by Amazon's streaming service. As such, the list should reflect this and those 18 episodes should be listed as season 10 and the list should mark the season that started January 26, 2016 as Season 11, not season 12. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:e000:1521:c16b:b0bb:e121:885e:9068 (talk • contribs) 08:08, 26 January 2016‎ (UTC)

We can't change articles every time TBS changes the way that it re-organises seasons, which has happened several times now. --AussieLegend (✉) 15:02, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
I'm not talking about keeping up with how TBS changes it. I'm talking about organizing based on how it is being delivered. All 18 episodes are being distributed as season 11 now. Even the renewal notices for two more season are being referred to as season 12 and 13.
http://deadline.com/2015/08/american-dad-renewed-seasons-12-13-tbs-1201508250/
The article is officially inaccurate now. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:e000:1521:c16b:1cab:cbee:263f:f20d (talk • contribs) 10:40, 22 March 2016‎ (UTC)
The first 12 seasons are based on how the series was delivered so, no, it's not inaccurate at all. The problem now is that TBS has decided to reorganise everything. If you look at this guide, which is Fox's official episode recaps, you'll see that season 10, episode 8 is "Minstrel Krampus". This is how it aired, so this is correct. The issue of season changes was discussed at length at Talk:American Dad! some time ago. The discussions are now in the archives there, starting at Talk:American Dad!/Archive 3#Season 11 & season 12 dispute continuing to, and finishing with Talk:American Dad!/Archive 4#TBS Updates. --AussieLegend (✉) 11:41, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

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List_of_American_Dad!_episodes#Unscheduled_episodes

Hi

I have corrected the first two refs in the table, as the old linkss now point to the search homepage as they have changed the site-search engine.

The rest need fixing, but I am limited on time :¬( Chaosdruid (talk) 12:07, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

Season rearrangement

I tried doing but found it difficult. So I’m asking for help. I think the seasons listed here should be reorganized. From everything I read, to all the places where the show is streaming, everywhere has the show listed as 15 seasons. With 1 and 2 counting as one, as well 10 and 11. I believe it is time we listed it correctly.Rodent Zuna (talk) 20:03, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

Wikipedia lists the episodes as they aired. For some reason, after TBS took over the airing they renumbered episodes creating confusion, because that was not how they aired. That's why season 11 only has 3 episodes. They didn't do it straight away though. They waited to make it more confusing. --AussieLegend (✉) 20:34, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
It is an issue that even the American Dad fandom wiki found when it came to this issue due to TBS being inconsistent on the issue. Thus they stuck with the Hulu method in which almost every streaming place also seems to follow.[17] I do think just as every other place that streams the series, we should follow their method in keeping it consistently with them as well because almost all of them has the current season as it’s 15th. Rodent Zuna (talk) 23:25, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
The key phrase/word there though when discussing the Hulu numbering is "almost every streaming place". There are so many different labeling methods out there that it's impossible to identify which one is "correct" - it is weird though that not all streaming services use the same numbering as they get the episodes directly from 20th Century Fox who would presumably supply the season and episode numbering with the actual episodes themselves. The other problem with going through the whole effort of reordering everything is that any numbering we choose to run off of could change at any moment - which has happened numerous times throughout the show's history. I would say it's just easier to leave it as-is and continue with it at this point because constantly changing things when TBS, 20th Century Fox or streaming services adopt a new method would easily become quite time consuming.
Plus as a personal opinion, combining what is currently listed as seasons 1 & 2 would be a very unusual occurrence for network TV in the USA - other than shows that premiered in the summer (June and July) and bleed slightly into the start of the new season and end in early September, it's very unusual to see a single broadcast season span across two network TV seasons. The only example I can think of is Family Guy's fourth season - and even that was a hot topic that went back and forth for a long time back in the day for that article set. Just my two cents. - Riggleby (talk) 07:04, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

User:AussieLegend, I would very much like to get your input on this issue. This is an issue I don’t want to see forgotten. Rodent Zuna (talk) 00:08, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

To be honest, I'm confused. A check of the TBS website shows videos for S16 episodes 1-20 but not 21 or 22. References 282 and 284 show episodes aired recently as episodes 21 & 22. I find it amazing that any series would still be showing episodes of the last season AFTER the next season had started but this is what has happened. --AussieLegend (✉) 17:51, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
Places like iTunes, IMDB, Google playlist, among others not only list 15 seasons, but those 2 episodes as part of the shows ″official 15th season″. It be nice to settle this for good. Rodent Zuna (talk) 17:59, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
Forget imdb, it's not a reliable source. TBS is a reliable source and it says that the episodes aired as Riggleby said they did. "I don't like it" is not a valid reason to disregard the TBS sources. --AussieLegend (✉) 18:10, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
I have no issue with the TBS source. My problem, similar to how the seasons here listed is that places like iTunes and others have 15 seasons listed and those 2 are part of the new season right now. I’m not sure were you got that impression of me not liking it. The TBS source is a good source of evidence of backing it up but due other streaming places contradicting it as well as TBS’ history of being inconsistent should be noted. My reasoning was that the pages should be before this started until we reached consensus. Rodent Zuna (talk) 18:32, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
As has been explained, we have the episodes listed here as they aired up until TBS took over. That's why the number of seasons is different. Since then we've followed the TBS episode numbering, even though the season numbers might be different, so listing the latest episodes as TBS lists them is consistent with what we have been doing, even though it seems quite ridiculous to probably everyone that two episodes aired recently are part of the season that we thought ended last year. --AussieLegend (✉) 18:42, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
If we’re following TBS’ source they do list the show on having 15 seasons as well. Which again, almost every source of streaming as I said does list the show on having 15 seasons. Rodent Zuna (talk) 18:54, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
I believe that when User:AussieLegend says that we follow the TBS numbering, they are referring specifically to the numbering of the episode number, not the season number. The season number is inherited by the TBS episodes based on how FOX labeled their seasons. - Riggleby (talk) 20:00, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
That is correct. It makes no sense to reorder seasons as this would affect references as well, resulting in even more confusion than TBS has generated. --AussieLegend (✉) 04:07, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
I'll throw in my tuppence worth in support of Riggleby and AussieLegend on the matter of the final two episodes of season 16. They're clearly listed as such by TBS, which should be seen as a primary source since they're the production company. As Riggleby has confirmed, it's rare but not unprecendented for a show to have overlapping seasons.
The season numbering debate is a different matter, although I think it would be useful to point back to the details of this on the main American Dad! article. Barry Wom (talk) 08:49, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

"Downtown" and "Cheek to Cheek: A Stripper’s Story" numbering

I have proposed this discussion so that we do not get into an edit war.

My reasoning why these two episodes should be listed as S16 is very simple - all episodes that have aired on TBS have been labeled using their numbering system on Wikipedia since the series moved from FOX. The case made by Orange Mo's is that TBS' numbering follows the production order - however this is incorrect. If you look at the first TBS season (Season 12) not all episodes aired in their production order, but this numbering we have matches the official TBS numbering (ie the VOD link for, on Wikipedia numbering, S12E05 https://www.tbs.com/shows/american-dad/season-10/episode-5/now-and-gwen which had production code 9AJN06. If TBS were truly labeling as per production, this URL would say "episode-6"). So the claim their numbering is unreliable and directly translates to production order is false. They have simply elected to briefly have two concurrent seasons at this particular time.

If we were to change to ordering seasons how they've aired, we would then need to also separate episodes from S15 that aired in 2019 into S16 - because that's how TBS aired the episodes. Opening the "as aired" order system opens a much bigger can of worms than simply following TBS' order. Especially when you consider the mess that the show already has in regards to it's numbering. - Riggleby (talk) 07:20, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

Orange Mo has since made edits without attempting to discuss this by using the episodes on YouTube as a source. This is also an invalid source as this same source also combines what Wikipedia has listed as seasons 11 and 12 into a single season. It is yet another source that also contradicts other sources they have used to make their case. - Riggleby (talk) 22:00, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
Shows can't have two seasons at once, that's not how seasons work. "Downtown" aired after the premiere of season 17, making it part of that season. The episodes of season 15 that aired in 2019 came before the premiere of season 16, so that's irrelevant. 2A02:C7F:B8CE:A700:65AA:505F:9DD7:EBA4 (talk) 17:29, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
Your statement that shows can't have two seasons at one is completely false. ie look at this table from the "List of SpongeBob SquarePants episodes" article as just one example:
SeasonEpisodesSegmentsOriginally aired
First airedLast aired
12041May 1, 1999 (1999-05-01)March 3, 2001 (2001-03-03)
22039October 20, 2000 (2000-10-20)July 26, 2003 (2003-07-26)
32037October 5, 2001 (2001-10-05)October 11, 2004 (2004-10-11)
42038May 6, 2005 (2005-05-06)July 24, 2007 (2007-07-24)
52041February 19, 2007 (2007-02-19)July 19, 2009 (2009-07-19)
62647March 3, 2008 (2008-03-03)July 5, 2010 (2010-07-05)
72650July 19, 2009 (2009-07-19)June 11, 2011 (2011-06-11)
82647March 26, 2011 (2011-03-26)December 6, 2012 (2012-12-06)
92649July 21, 2012 (2012-07-21)February 20, 2017 (2017-02-20)
101122October 15, 2016 (2016-10-15)December 2, 2017 (2017-12-02)
112650June 24, 2017 (2017-06-24)November 25, 2018 (2018-11-25)
122648November 11, 2018 (2018-11-11)April 29, 2022 (2022-04-29)
132652October 22, 2020 (2020-10-22)November 1, 2023 (2023-11-01)
1413[a]21November 2, 2023 (2023-11-02)December 2, 2024 (2024-12-02)[1]
1520[2]—July 24, 2024 (2024-07-24)TBA
The dates have overlapped for years but even though they aired in different groups rather than season-by-season, labeling by the network identified them as different seasons - which is what is happening here now. - Riggleby (talk) 20:36, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
Like my discussion, below. I have seen the numerous streaming places list those two episodes as the current season due to TBS being inconsistent with their seasons. Rodent Zuna (talk) 00:10, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
Their inconsistency has always been with the season numbering, not the episode numbering (unless they're merging/demerging seasons). Streaming numbering, as mentioned below, isn't always accurate either and isn't really able to be use to argue against the "official" numbering system. Also, while usually I agree that leave the pages at the status quo while discussing is the best thing to do, people like User:Orange Mo and 2A02:C7F:B8CE:A700:65AA:505F:9DD7:EBA4 seem to be refusing to discuss this issue which is going to result in nothing happening - whereas if we keep the pages as suggested, it's going to eventually prompt them to come here and start taking part in a discussion. - Riggleby (talk) 00:32, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
Spongebob Squarepants' seasons are arranged by production rather than broadcast, American Dad's are not. Also, Wikipedia doesn't follow TBS' season arrangement. 2A02:C7F:B8CE:A700:5CAC:1B1E:8A9A:C45D (talk) 13:52, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
"Wikipedia doesn't follow TBS' season arrangement" - why wouldn't it? Barry Wom (talk) 14:02, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
"Wikipedia doesn't follow TBS' season arrangement" is completely incorrect by the way. As stated below in the other discussion, Wikipedia does follow TBS' numbering as far as the episode number is concerned. The season number however is inherited from the FOX labeling before the show moved. - Riggleby (talk) 21:35, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
How is it incorrect? TBS combines the seasons 1 and 2 and seasons 11 and 12 into single seasons, Wikipedia doesn't. Besides, you ignored my point about Spongebob Squarepants' seasons being arranged by production rather than broadcast. 2A02:C7F:B8CE:A700:5150:B586:B681:BBF1 (talk) 14:54, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
You're not reading what is written. Seasons 1 & 2, and 11 & 12 are not combined because that's how they aired. Since season 12, which was when episodes started airing on TBS, the episode numbering has followed the TBS episode numbering. As for Spongebob, that's irrelevant. Wikipedia numbers episodes according to how they aired, with only a few exceptions. --AussieLegend (✉) 15:01, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
Wikipedia doesn't follow TBS' numbering, TBS has Wikipedia's season 16 as season 14. I know Wikipedia generally goes by how episodes aired, that's why I'm against including "Downtown" and "Cheek to Cheek: A Stripper's Story" in season 16, they aired as part of season 17. 2A02:C7F:B8CE:A700:5150:B586:B681:BBF1 (talk) 15:10, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
You're not following. Have a look at the comment above: "inconsistency has always been with the season numbering, not the episode numbering". The two episodes you mention are clearly labelled as the final two episodes of the previous season by TBS. Barry Wom (talk) 15:16, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
You might recall that I said "the episode numbering has followed the TBS episode numbering" not "the season numbering". When episodes started airing on TBS they were part of TBS season 1 but TBS subsequently reordered the seasons, contrary to how they actually aired. Wikipedia has retained the original season numbering with the TBS first season being 12 to avoid confusion, since it was the 12th season to air anyway. --AussieLegend (✉) 15:47, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
This is just using TBS' numbering when it's convenient and ignoring it when it's not. You can't say that Wikipedia goes by how episodes aired and then have overlapping seasons. 2A02:C7F:B8CE:A700:318B:5C90:8EE0:4D39 (talk) 14:33, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
Until now there have been no real issues. The current situation where TBS has decided to tack on two episodes is of TBS' making. If you have a problem with that, take it up with TBS. However, your persistent disruptive editing of the three articles will not be tolerated. --AussieLegend (✉) 14:47, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
Can someone please explain what exactly "Wikipedia numbers episodes according to how they aired" means? Barry Wom (talk) 14:51, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
It's really rather simple. Episodes are numbered in the same order that they aired. The first episode of season 1 is episode 1, the second is number 2 and so on. This worked well right up until Season 11 episode 3, and continues to work well for other programs. Then TBS took over and called the Season "season 1" but we already had season 1 episode 1 so we started numbering from season 12. This resulted in season numbers, but not episode numbers being out of sync. Still, that worked until recently when TBS decided to really confuse things by making the 1st and 3rd episode that aired this year the 21st and 22nd episodes of the season that we all thought ended last year. They also decided that the 2nd episode was the first of the current season. Drugs are bad, m'kay. --AussieLegend (✉) 15:03, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
Makes sense. I guess the list of SpongeBob SquarePants episodes is a bit of an anomaly as it lists episodes by production code rather than airdate.
"Drugs are bad, m'kay." They sure are. I'll take any leftovers off your hands. Barry Wom (talk) 15:35, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
@AussieLegend: TBS initially referred to their first season as season 12 and had the same arrangement as Wikipedia, then they changed it and now have Wikipedia's season 17 as season 15. Broadcast seasons can't overlap, that's not how they work. 2A02:C7F:B8CE:A700:B4BE:1BA2:9BA4:EE46 (talk) 17:07, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

RfC

Should "Downtown" and "Cheek to Cheek: A Stripper's Story" be considered part of season 16 or season 17? Although they aired after the season 17 premiere, TBS' website lists them as part of season 16, but Wikipedia doesn't follow TBS' season arrangement and these new episodes have been advertised as a new season by official sources. 2A02:C7F:B8CE:A700:595D:ED62:EF7:90F4 (talk) 17:59, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

  • Season 16 per the TBS sources. If we were to include them as part of season 17 we would have to resort to WP:OR. While Wikipedia doesn't follow TBS' season order, we DO follow the episode order. --AussieLegend (✉) 18:21, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
  • Season 17 They should be regarded as part of season 17 since Wikipedia doesn't follow TBS' season arrangement and other official episodes have also portrayed them as new episodes. Idealigic (talk) 20:35, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
That would require us to resort to original research as the sources in the article identify the episodes as the final 2 episodes of last season. The episode listed as the first episode in season 17 aired between the two season 16 episodes so that would have to be moved to episode 2, contrary to reliable sources. This just can't be done, and is the most significant flaw with this RfC since we can't resort to WP:OR. --AussieLegend (✉) 11:06, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
No it wouldn't, they aired after the season 17 premiere and these new episodes have been referred to as a new season by official sources. 2A02:C7F:B8CE:A700:912A:8168:25B5:8AF3 (talk) 14:34, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
What official sources? The official source is TBS. --AussieLegend (✉) 15:28, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
TBS' advertising for these new episodes has referred to them as a new season. 2A02:C7F:B8CE:A700:912A:8168:25B5:8AF3 (talk) 22:22, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
Can you provide a link to the source that says that? --AussieLegend (✉) 06:23, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

Roger Needs Dick

This is episode S17E08. It has already aired. It keeps being listed as the latest TBD episode, ie. not yet aired. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Halsafar (talk • contribs) 04:00, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

I believe the issue is that we are numbering the episodes in the order in which they aired on TBS. As this episode hasn't yet been broadcast by TBS, it hasn't been assigned an episode number on Wiki. Barry Wom (talk) 08:47, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
Apparently Amazon aired it in error. Discussion here: https://forums.thetvdb.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=65510&p=179357#p179357. So it is accurate that the episode has been 're-numbered'.

Seasons renewal

American Dad just got renewed for 2 more seasons. Per the source: https://deadline.com/2021/12/american-dad-renewed-seasons-season-18-19-tbs-1234892261/

However the source that the 2 seasons renewed are 18 and 19. With both the head of TBS and the series showrunners confirming this. The head of TBS said this, “American Dad! is reaching rarified air with 18th and 19th season pickups that only a handful of shows have ever accomplished; this speaks to the zeitgeisty humor that resonates with audiences, and to the dedication of its creators and brilliant TBS network executives.” And the one of the series showrunners, Weitzman said, “We are all so grateful to TBS for this two-season pickup, said Weitzman. “Getting seasons 18 and 19 means we will finally be able to tell the stories we only dreamed of telling in seasons 16 and 17.” Should we rearrange the seasons considering we are off from the creators are saying.2600:387:C:6D1A:0:0:0:4 (talk) 00:36, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

Short answer, no.
Long answer - American_Dad!#Season_number_discrepancies
Barry Wom (talk) 01:36, 22 December 2021 (UTC)
So basically it’s just confusing for us as it is to them then?2600:387:C:6D1A:0:0:0:4 (talk) 02:01, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

Episode numbering season 17

On the "No. overall" column for season 16 it ends with episode 279. This is correct. But then the first episode of season 17 starts with 277 overall and throws the total count. As of the time of this writing the final episode listed is titled "300" but shows as No Overall 299. If this is corrected, they will line up to where episode 300 is actually 300 overall which is correct.

I compared it to AD Fandom page, which isn't exactly official, but it lists all the same episodes as the Wikipedia entry and shows the same numbering except for the error I mentioned above.

https://americandad.fandom.com/wiki/Episode_Guide — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mgm5790 (talk • contribs) 07:38, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

Not sure what your point is. I just checked the Fandom page you mentioned and it has exactly the same "No. overall" numbering as we have here.
The episode titled "300" is 300 in production order but 299 in broadcast order. "Yule. Tide. Repeat." will probably be the 300th broadcast episode. Barry Wom (talk) 10:48, 4 October 2020 (UTC)
You can't follow fandom page just on this one single occasion! Season 1 has 23, season 2 19 episodes there etc. Do it logically and move 278 and 279 to season "2020" as sources like IMDB suggest. Chrz (talk) 15:25, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
Wikipedia isn't following the fandom page. It was TBS who listed episodes 278 and 279 as part of season 16 and episode 277 as part of season 17. The full discussion on the matter is archived here. Barry Wom (talk) 17:47, 28 January 2022 (UTC)


Cite error: There are <ref group=lower-alpha> tags or {{efn}} templates on this page, but the references will not show without a {{reflist|group=lower-alpha}} template or {{notelist}} template (see the help page).

  1. ^ "Nick Press Schedules". Google Sheets.
  2. ^ Cite error: The named reference Paramount SB S15 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
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