Talk:Lisa the Iconoclast

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Lisa the Iconoclast article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Television: Episode coverage

	Television portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Television, a collaborative effort to develop and improve Wikipedia articles about television programs. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page where you can join the discussion. To improve this article, please refer to the style guidelines for the type of work.TelevisionWikipedia:WikiProject TelevisionTemplate:WikiProject Televisiontelevision articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the Episode coverage task force.
	This article has been automatically rated by a bot or other tool because one or more other projects use this class. Please ensure the assessment is correct before removing the `\|auto=` parameter.

Animation Low‑importance

	Animation portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Animation, a collaborative effort to build an encyclopedic guide to animation on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, help out with the open tasks, or contribute to the discussion.AnimationWikipedia:WikiProject AnimationTemplate:WikiProject AnimationAnimation articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

The Simpsons Mid‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject The Simpsons, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles relating to The Simpsons on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.The SimpsonsWikipedia:WikiProject The SimpsonsTemplate:WikiProject The SimpsonsThe Simpsons articles

Mid

This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Tasks you can do:

edit

Collaboration: Featured topic Drive
Copyedit:
Merge:
Cleanup: Ralph Wiggum, Milhouse Van Houten
Shorten plot synopsis:
Free-use images: Jon Vitti, Pamela Hayden, Greg Daniels, Ian Maxtone-Graham, Jim Reardon, Alf Clausen
Reference: Bongo Comics Group, The Heartbroke Kid, World of Springfield
Expand: The Simpsons Theme, Bongo Comics, Mark Kirkland, Jim Reardon, The Simpsons: Tapped Out
Stubs: Neil Affleck, Bob Anderson (director), Wes Archer, J. Stewart Burns More...

Skepticism Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Skepticism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of science, pseudoscience, pseudohistory and skepticism related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SkepticismWikipedia:WikiProject SkepticismTemplate:WikiProject SkepticismSkepticism articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Alternative views Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Alternative views, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of significant alternative views in every field, from the sciences to the humanities. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion.Alternative viewsWikipedia:WikiProject Alternative viewsTemplate:WikiProject Alternative viewsAlternative views articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

History Low‑importance

	History portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject History, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the subject of History on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.HistoryWikipedia:WikiProject HistoryTemplate:WikiProject Historyhistory articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Lisa the Iconoclast has been listed as one of the Media and drama good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Lisa the Iconoclast is part of the The Simpsons (season 7) series, a good topic. This is identified as among the best series of articles produced by the Wikipedia community. If you can update or improve it, please do so.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
June 1, 2009	Good article nominee	Listed
July 8, 2009	Good topic candidate	Promoted

Current status: Good article

"Heeeeere's Johnny-cakes!"

I don't think that line spoofs The Shining, as it's not done in a "terrifying" manner -- rather, it directly spoofs the original Ed McMahon introduction in The Tonight Show Starring Johnny Carson. I say this, and I'm not even an American, and I've never even seen The Tonight Show! What do you guys think? Dave-ros 22:24, 24 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Jebediah Springfield

-)

Who happens to voice this character? Thanks, Aeryck89 17:15, 5 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I found who voices it, Harry Shearer. Aeryck89 17:30, 5 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Day of the Locust

I find it odd that there's no mention of Donald Sutherland's role as Homer Simpson in this movie. JuJube 17:22, 4 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Cromulent

I'm not familiar with the DVD commentary, but there is a scene in the Blackadder III episode where Edmund (Rowan Atkinson) is trying to prove that Samuel Johnson's (Robbie Coltrane) dictionary is incomplete, and starts inventing words that then need to be inserted. When challenged on the first of these, he replies "It's a perfectly cromulent word!". Given the perfectly matching dialogue, this surely has to be a reference, rather than a stunningly identical coinage.

Indeed. If anyone still doesn't believe this I'm happy to snip out the section of footage and put it on YouTube. The word cromulent is used in exactly the same context as in this Simpsons episode but nine years earlier. I doubt its a coincidence. - 58.107.50.36 (talk) 00:18, 8 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You need a source, and no forums do not count, nor do blogs or YouTube. -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 01:23, 8 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

How would putting the clip on YouTube not count? It's a question of fact not interpretation. I'll have a look for the DVD when I have time. - 58.107.50.36 (talk) 01:57, 8 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not going to lie, I've never heard this, but in the DVD commentary, they basically give the impression that they came up with it. So, that means that it COULD (however unlikely it may seem) be a coincidence, but it shouldn't just be said that it is a reference to Blackadder, because that would then void everything the producers have said, and there wouldn't be a source. If you can find a proper source, then it could be included and a more correct phrase would be "An episode of the television show Blackadder III used the word 'Cromulent'. This usage predates The Simpsons by ___ years." It doesn't make any assumptions or accusations. -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 02:09, 8 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I can confirm that this is false. 'Cromulent' does not appear in that scene from Ink and Incapability, nor anywhere else in Blackadder as far as I know. Drunkenmonkey111 (talk) 03:43, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've done some google searching and as far as I can tell, this has never been confirmed at all, most of the mentions I've found are just random people saying it on forums and message groups. In the DVD commentary for this episode, they give the impression that they invented the word, but don't go into detail. -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 15:48, 4 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The simpsons writers DID invent the word. I just watched the scene from the Blackadder episode 'Ink and Incapability' and the word 'cromulent' DOES NOT appear anywhere in it. Blackadder says 'it's a perfectly common word'. The person who raised this topic was mistaken. End of discussion Drunkenmonkey111 (talk) 02:07, 6 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion restarted. Are there any other reliable secondary sources (apart from Mark Peters) that attribute both words to The Simpsons? I don't like the way the article currently takes Bill Oakley's word that Simpsons writers coined the words just because he says it on the DVD commentary; if I said that I created disco on a DVD commentary, does that mean it must be true? Bradley0110 (talk) 09:37, 13 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

First, it may have been better to start a new post so that people can easily find the discussion. As for the issue you have raised, then there is really no way to tell if the word "cromulent" was used before the Simpsons other than brute force read all books that predates the episode. I did a search on google books and didn't find any results that predates the episode (this was the same way I found the 1884 publication with embiggen in it). We know however that neither embiggen or cromulent were in the dictionary at the point when the episode aired, so i still think it is safe to say that the terms were coined by the writers, since they were unaware of previous use (at least for embiggen). So in any case I think your comparison to disco is unfair, because you can very easily look it up and see if disco is invented. Also, we know that all current use is attributed to the Simpsons episode (except of course for string theory which has a different meaning). We could perhaps work on the wording, but I don't think it is that bad. In any case, I have done a great deal of researching both embiggen and cromulent (book searces and news archive searches) and this is all I could find, so don't expect much else to be added. --Maitch (talk) 12:01, 14 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I was being facetious with "disco". :) Bradley0110 (talk) 15:27, 14 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The Trivia

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE trivia sections, and generally get livid when people want them removed, but... Several of these are just thoroughly irrelevant. Nobody cares that Wiggum was singing Camptown Races, that's obvious from watching the episode.. and the fact that Lucky Charms have been alluded to several times is equally irrelevant. Can't we come up with some guidelines for these trivia sections while still keeping them around? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.73.70.113 (talk) 23:27, 19 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The guidance exists: Wikipedia:Trivia sections. --HughCharlesParker (talk - contribs) 19:53, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

While still keeping them around being the key words there, Hugh.

Comic Book guy screenplay reference

"At the copy center, the Comic Book Guy asks Homer if he is Ridley Scott or James Cameron and then tells him not to steal his screenplay for a movie where computers threaten humans' personal liberties. James Cameron was the director of The Terminator and its sequel Terminator 2: Judgment Day, and Ridley Scott directed Blade Runner; the plots of all these movies are the same as that of the Comic Book Guy's screenplay."

I believe that this reference, at least in part, refers to James Cameron's plagiarism of a Harlan Ellison short story for the screenplay for Terminator, which Ellison successfully sued Cameron for. The Ridley Scott reference is unknown to me however.

Tk-baldwin (talk) 18:21, 12 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A real-world comparison example

Although maybe this isn't so releavant, and I'm fairly sure that it was unintended, but the entire issue brought up by this episode of the Simpsons does have some similiarities to the entire Yasukuni Shrine controversy, where criminals are being worshipped.

Don't know whether this can be incorporated into the article one way or another.

Bourquie (talk) 03:39, 20 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That sounds like your own conclusion, and wikipedia doesn't publish original research. We'd need to cite a reliable source for verification before including that comparison in the article. --HughCharlesParker (talk - contribs) 19:54, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sutherland's ad-libbed line

The character doesn't understand Lisa's pun.. does the line actually mean -Sutherland himself- didn't understand? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.73.70.113 (talk) 18:04, 4 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I don't have access to the source, but apparently the line "Did...uh...you had arthritis?" in the end wasn't in the script. Possibly Sutherland simply forgot what he was supposed to say. decltype (talk) 19:02, 4 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Embiggen: Created but already coined?

"Embiggen—in the context it is used in the episode—is a verb that was coined by Dan Greaney in 1996.[2] The verb previously occurred in an 1884 edition of the British journal Notes and Queries: A Medium of Intercommunication for Literary Men, General Readers, Etc. by C. A. Ward"

I'm not sure about this choice of phrasing in the above; would an edit be appropriate to say that Dan Greaney coincidentally happened to replicate a phrase earlier coined by C. A. Ward? It just strikes me as odd to say, in one line, that he invented it, when it had already been used. ...But then again, Europeans "discovered" America while the "Indian" Native Americans were living there, so...— Preceding unsigned comment added by DevinArnold (talk • contribs)

Well, there are a couple of examples of people inventing the same thing in history without being influenced by each other. In addition, I don't believe the words had the same meaning.--Maitch (talk) 21:45, 17 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Lisa the Iconoclast. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130710051721/http://www.ornl.gov/info/ornlreview/rev27-12/text/ansside6.html to http://www.ornl.gov/info/ornlreview/rev27-12/text/ansside6.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 20:15, 16 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]