- It looks like the infobox is for royalty vs. officeholder, so "reign" is one of the parameters for her period as a governor. Should she have an infobox like Samuel Kipi, the previous governor? If there are some fields that you want for her role as a princess - perhaps the {{Infobox officeholder}} could be imbedded for the Governor information. I would be happy to help with that if you have not imbedded infoboxes before.
- I see this is
 Done. Great, simple solution!–CaroleHenson (talk) 00:41, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- I wonder about changing the first sentence, Likelike (Hawaiian pronunciation: [likeːlikeː]; Miriam Likelike Kekāuluohi Keahelapalapa Kapili; January 13, 1851 – February 2, 1887) to:
- Miriam Likelike Kekāuluohi Keahelapalapa Kapili, commonly known as Likelike (Hawaiian pronunciation: [likeːlikeː]; January 13, 1851 – February 2, 1887) ?
- Per MOS:FIRST: While a commonly recognizable form of name will be used as the title of biographical articles, fuller forms of name may be used in the introduction to the lead. For instance, in the article Paul McCartney, the text of the lead begins: "Sir James Paul McCartney ...". --- Another good example is Madonna (entertainer)
- Prefer emphasis on the shorter name much like Liliuokalani or Queen Victoria. Generally all royal bio article bold the most common name and does not bold the full name. KAVEBEAR (talk) 23:56, 9 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- I am not sure that Queen Victoria is a good example. I couldn't find her full name until I did a search on "full name". IMO, you did a better job of it. Okay, I get your point.–CaroleHenson (talk) 00:41, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- @CaroleHenson: that is explained by a sourced note at the end of the sentence where it is mentioned in the Death and state funeral section. "Black magic, evil sorcery by means of prayer and incantation". — Maile (talk) 23:46, 9 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- I added "malevolently" to the sentence. How does that work?–CaroleHenson (talk) 00:41, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I consider this section Done, but feel free to adjust as you wish.–CaroleHenson (talk) 00:44, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Early life and family[edit]- Is there a way to put her full name up with the birth info in this section?
- I am not understanding this sentence Two of her namesakes were Likelike, an earlier Hawaiian chiefess and wife of Kalanimoku, and Miriam Auhea Kekāuluohi, Kuhina Nui (premier) and the mother of King Lunalilo (r. 1873–74).[5]
- Doesn't namesake mean named after someone? The wife of Kalanimoku was born before this Likelike. I would this it would be the reverse. Was this Likelike named after the wife of Kalanimoku?
- It goes both directions. Please see Namesake. — Maile (talk) 23:48, 9 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- I, personally would tighten this up, perhaps: Two of her namesakes were Likelike, an earlier Hawaiian chiefess and wife of Kalanimoku, and Miriam Auhea Kekāuluohi, Kuhina Nui (premier) and the mother of King Lunalilo (r. 1873–74).[5] to:
- An earlier Hawaiian chiefess and wife of Kalanimoku, had the name Likelike.[5] and unless Miriam Auhea Kekāuluohi was specifically named Miram after her, I wouldn't mention that.–CaroleHenson (talk) 00:58, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- I am not convinced. Too many run ons. KAVEBEAR (talk) 02:50, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- What??? I am guessing you meant to put that comment somewhere else.
- So: I really like the edit you made, it looks good and I think flows better - at least as far as her birth information and full name. Great job!–CaroleHenson (talk) 03:14, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- In what way is Miriam Auhea Kekāuluohi a namesake of Likelike or Miriam Likelike Kekāuluohi Keahelapalapa Kapili - the name Miram? If so, is this notable?
-
- Okay. Good.–CaroleHenson (talk) 03:14, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Excellent, this section is Done.–CaroleHenson (talk) 03:14, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Betrothal to Albert Kūnuiākea[edit]
Excellent, this section is Done–CaroleHenson (talk) 00:45, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Marriage to Archibald Scott Cleghorn[edit]- In On a few occasions of domestic arguments between the two, the princess simply returned to island of Hawaii and refused to return.[8] does it mean that she never returned?
- i.e. would you please reword this so it's a bit clearer. If she refused to return, she could only do that once, right?–CaroleHenson (talk) 00:46, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Changed. KAVEBEAR (talk) 02:39, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Excellent, thanks! This section is Done–CaroleHenson (talk) 03:15, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- In After his accession, Kalākaua bestowed... does it make sense to add David to his name... or perhaps remind the reader that this is her brother?
-
- Yes, but Likelike isn't mentioned in the sentence. So, if someone is scanning this article, or forgot the siblings names, they have to figure out who Kalākaua is - which is also a family name, which adds a level of complexity.–CaroleHenson (talk) 00:49, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Kalākaua bestowed royal titles and ranks upon his siblings: sisters Princess Lydia Kamakaʻeha Dominis (Liliʻuokalani) and Princess Miriam Likelike... KAVEBEAR (talk) 02:38, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- I think there is a misunderstanding about what I was talking about, so I made the minor edit here since this person's name is the same as a family name [2]–CaroleHenson (talk) 03:19, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- It is a little more complicated than that. Hawaiian surnames weren't formally adopted until the 1850s. Kalakaua did use his name as a surname until his ascession as king then it became a regnal name much like Elizabeth II. It is bad practice (Hawaii MOS and also from a historiographical sense toward Native Hawaiian naming practices) to refer to the king during his reign David or Liliuokalani as Lydia. So I changed it to remind reader that he is her brother. KAVEBEAR (talk) 03:56, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Excellent, thank you! It looks good.–CaroleHenson (talk) 08:59, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
This section is Done.–CaroleHenson (talk) 09:36, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Death and state funeral[edit]- Not necessarily. She organized it and was its first president. But it was pretty much run by women of good financial means in Honolulu. There were subsequent other presidents, and the good it did lasted beyond her death. I look at it this way: Danny Thomas built St. Jude's Hospital in his lifetime. But St. Jude's is still there and is very much a part of his legacy. — Maile (talk) 00:45, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Good example, in the Danny Thomas article, it figures in the body of the article, here:Danny Thomas#Philanthropy.–CaroleHenson (talk) 00:51, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- @KAVEBEAR: Is there a way you would like to handle this? Should it be moved up to Public life? I can see it in either section, but should only be in one of them, I think. Whatever you think, I'll go along with. — Maile (talk) 01:04, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- I reckon we keep it where it is for balance otherwise, she doesn't have much of a legacy. KAVEBEAR (talk) 02:51, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Here is my thinking: I had a hard time understanding from the article why she was so revered. This helps explain it. It's my theory, based on info about people quickly scanning articles, that it is less likely to be read in the legacy section.
- You could put the part about her founding the org in the body of the article and in the legacy section that she is remembered for this work.
- This does not sound like a neutral comment. It's isn't the purpose of Wikipedia to promote people. That shouldn't be a decision criteria. Besides, her legacy isn't made or diminished by what is written in Wikipedia. Her legacy is the way she lived her life - and readers should get a sense of that as they read the article - they don't need to be spoon-fed what her legacy is.
- I am not really understanding why there is reluctance on this article. I have backed off on a number of suggestions. Did you just want a rubber stamp for a review? I am not sure if I should pass the article because I am concerned that it will not be stable for future editors who may have a different approach. None of my suggestions have been major issues - so I am a bit gobsmacked.–CaroleHenson (talk) 03:33, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Do you think it would serve better in the Public life section? I can see it both ways. My reluctance was that it would diminish the legacy section. Lot of contents can go in one or more places. See these changes. KAVEBEAR (talk) 03:49, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- I think that looks really good! Did you want to add something to the Legacy section about how her philanthropic work lived on after her death? Since there is now a Philanthropy section, what do you think about adding a heading for "Governor"?–CaroleHenson (talk) 09:05, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Done.KAVEBEAR (talk) 09:09, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Changed section to "Memorials and namesakes" since legacy is more in her musical compositions and her daughter. KAVEBEAR (talk) 03:59, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- I saw that and like it!–CaroleHenson (talk) 09:35, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Excellent, this section is Done–CaroleHenson (talk) 09:35, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- This is just an FYI. Not even a suggestion.–CaroleHenson (talk) 01:44, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
-
- If you go to Ancestry and then "Ancestors of Likelike" - now the first item, that is what I am talking about.
- It's up to you, but it either needs citations where there are none, or to be removed. I know it's a pain, I recently cleaned up ancestral info for Thomas Jefferson and Abraham Lincoln and when I had to find sources, I found that some info was wrong. So, it's good to ensure it's properly cited.–CaroleHenson (talk) 03:38, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- I just removed it and left the actual family tree which is cited. KAVEBEAR (talk) 04:16, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Okay, sounds good.–CaroleHenson (talk) 09:08, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
This section is Done–CaroleHenson (talk) 09:34, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I see you have been hard at work polishing up the article. Here's a take on the recent edits per this diff
- I see that there are changes to piped values for links, a caption,
- A quote about her daughter
- Edits re: the family estate
- Participation in Kalākaua's coronation
- Some minor edits
- Edits to citations / references, in some cases to add archive links, in some cases to change citation style, and in a couple of places to add/change citations
- Prophesy on her deathbed
After reviewing the edits, I don't have any comments or suggestions. They look good.–CaroleHenson (talk) 09:23, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I missed this Photographers, and one sketch artist, were there en mass to chronicle the historic event. in the Funeral and burial section. Do you have a citation for it?–CaroleHenson (talk) 09:27, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I made a few minor edits here–CaroleHenson (talk) 09:33, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- @CaroleHenson: Added source. KAVEBEAR (talk) 09:50, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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