Talk:Licorice McKechnie

Absence

The orginating source of Licorice's absence is, according to most sites on the net, a 1989 Q magazine article. I believe this relates to a Q&A segment from the April 1989 issue in which Licorice is listed. The section says that she was '...reported to have been behaving oddly - "going off the deep end" in the words of a former String Band associate - and was last seen setting out on a journey across the Arizona Desert.' In a note, Q mag expresses its thanks to 'Bill Allison' for ISB information. Can we assume that the former associate who was the originating source of information was Bill Allison? In which case, who is he.

Additionally, I did a search on the California Missing Person PDF and found nothing on Licorice or any of her aliases. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aridol (talk • contribs)

Mmmm... do you think we should remove all the unsourced/unsubstantiated info from this article, re Wikipedia policy on living people? (See WP Bio Project template I put at the top.)--Mais oui! 23:33, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Not sure Mais oui. I wasn't trying to suggest that Licorice is still living, merely that the evidence for her demise is not convincing. I was hoping that someone familiar with ISB history would know who Bill Allison is or was and would be able to garnour some more information. Certainly, the Q mag article (actually just an aside) seems to me a shaky source upon which to base the Wiki entry. Past that I find Licorice extremely enigmatic and evocative of the times and the thought that she's been lost made me rather sad. Aridol 12th August 2006 (PS I'm an html novice, so please excuse the lack of markup) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aridol (talk • contribs)

I hate to say this but it seems slightly overoptimistic to place Licorice in the "living people" category if her whereabouts have been unknown for over 20 years. There may be little evidence to place her under a "missing" category but unfortunately there's even less evidence to declare she is living.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.69.106.43 (talk • contribs)

Indeed, Joe Boyd's recent autobiography briefly mentions the mystery of her disappearance, and he draws the conclusion that she is probably dead. He makes no reference to any solid sources, so of course he might simply have read this Wikipedia article (!) but it's certainly an example in print of the presumption of her death. Cravenmonket 17:50, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

I have briefly updated the article having read an interview with her sister Frances Harding from 2000. I haven't included all the information she shared in the interview as it would seem rudderless without a more relevent biography, but apparently her last letter was dated 1990, from Sacramento about an operation she was recovering from. It still sheds little light on what happened after this letter, but the interview did provide the strange fact that she was going to be wed to Bert Jansch (who was also a friend of Robin Williamson) until her father made his position clear on the matter. The local banns apparently stated "Bert Jansch, musician, to marry Christina McKechnie, ceramic artist", but the wedding never took place and shortly afterwards Bert left for Morocco. 82.69.106.43 16:25, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

The anon editor failed to provide any reference for this, and it has been almost 8 yrs waiting for one - so - it cannot stand as 'fact' at this point, and the quote from the highly-respected music magazine MOJO must take preference, especially over any anon fan-forum postings which anyone can edit and cannot be independently verified.HammerFilmFan (talk) 17:24, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

Those references are from the Be Glad book, previously cited in the article. I've now amended the text accordingly. Ghmyrtle (talk) 07:55, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

How fascinating... I am in Sacramento. Perhaps I have passed th aging Licorice on J Street, grooving outside The Beat to some sounds in her head... Cravenmonket 17:54, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

"Living" no more

Having not read this page before doing so, and reading nothing here that would have prevented me from doing so, I have removed this person from the Category:Living Persons because, "(I just think that if someone has been "missing" for 20 years, and is classified here as "Disappeared", they cannot be confidently also classified as "Living Persons" (hopeful as that might be)."

If Licorice McKechnie is still alive somewhere, it is also clear that she does not wish to be alive as Licorice McKechnie. Thus, Licorice McKechnie is either literally or metaphorically dead. Saudade7 10:42, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

It has been 29 years since anyone heard from her. The oft-quoted "Sacramento postcard" is just a completely unverified internet story/myth. It was a dangerous thing to attempt, hitch-hiking across the Arizona desert, especially in an unstable frame of mind, for an attractive single female. It is probable she met her end there, in some fashion. If someone can look into the court records or notices in the UK to see if her family has attempted to have her declared dead, that would be a good note for the article. 98.67.177.27 (talk) 12:05, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

unverified anonymous non-reliable sourced internet forum postings - going to delete soon

YEARS ago, references and verification were asked for the "is she or isn't she alive?" portion of the article. Totally anonymous, unverifiable, against-policy and guidelines statements were added to the article. The only RS currently cited that addresses her disappearance is the MOJO magazine quote. More than enough time has elapsed, and the statements could have been challenged and removed the same day they were posted. I wanted to give one last warning before ZIP! 98.67.177.27 (talk) 12:23, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

If you limit yourself to removing unsourced postings, it may be that no-one will object. However, please do not insert your "personal feelings" about what may have happened to her, as has recently been done on other sites. Ghmyrtle (talk) 12:30, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

Re-read what I posted. What do you see that I have stressed? The ONE reliable source listed at this point with a date on it that was verified by a journalist with associates, and by checking with CLM's family. We don't go by our "personal feelings" - we use Reliable Sources. Verifiability, not Truth. Your advise was not suggested by anything I have posted here, or the thousands of articles I have edited, or the hundred or so odd articles that I have created. I have been on Wiki since its inception. I'm off-site/away from home at this time, and I don't sign in, as it brings about troubles with proxies for work, etc. But I'm hardly an 'anon.' 98.67.190.23 (talk) 14:45, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

The reference to "personal feelings" was to the last post on this site - which of course may not be you, although it would be (half-)remarkable if more than person were to place very similar postings on different sites (e.g. also here), and this one, within the same day or two after so many years. I have no idea whether or not you have edited "thousands of articles" - that could be just fantasy - and don't really care whether you have or not. There is scope for improving the article, so long as you refrain from acting like a bull in a china shop, and from making unnecessarily aggressive comments like "one last warning before ZIP! ". Ghmyrtle (talk) 15:07, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

PS: Incidentally, what Joe Boyd says in his memoir is simply "Licorice disappeared somewhere in California and is presumed dead." He doesn't say whether or not he personally believes her to be dead - he is making a general statement that she "is presumed dead" - which is what a lot of people believe. For our purposes here, she is a missing person covered by WP:BLP. Ghmyrtle (talk) 15:17, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

My copy he does. Anyway, that's neither here nor there - at no point do I reflect anything but what the MOJO journalist - who did his homework - stated - a Reliable Source. Nor am I challenging the category she is put in as far as Wiki goes - never mentioned that and don't really care if she's listed as missing or deceased as far as that goes. The main issue was to get the crank forum postings removed from the article - which technically should have take place long ago. 98.67.190.23 (talk) 04:12, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

98.67.190.23 - The paragraph you removed here contains content that is referenced. Why are you removing the entire thing? I understand that some of it is (they're marked with {{citation needed}} templates), but not all of it should be removed. Can you please explain? ~Oshwah~^{(talk) (contribs)} 04:15, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

It's already explained ad nauseum - THOSE REFERENCES ARE NOT RELIABLE SOURCES - those are blogs and anon forum posting cruft. Cease and desist, and you should have replied here much earlier, anyway. WP:OWN, by the way. 98.67.190.23 (talk) 04:20, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

You need to calm down, please. You are using aggressive tone and capital letters and throwing guidelines like WP:OWN around as if they're stuffed animals - you obviously do not understand what ownership of content means if you're using it in this conversation. If the sources that are remaining do not meet the guidelines, then it would be nice if you simply just explained so in-depth - you didn't need to use the level of tone and aggression that you did. Throwing a tantrum because someone reverted you and is simply asking questions isn't helping our fundamental goals; it's not behavior that's in-line with making civil discussions and coming to a consensus. ~Oshwah~^{(talk) (contribs)} 04:26, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

I took a look at the references and your response, and I agree that they do not meet the guidelines set by WP:BLP - I have made the appropriate removals here. Thank you for taking the time to explain your rationale. Next time, lets take a few breaths, avoid the aggressive tone, and work together peacefully, okay? :-) ~Oshwah~^{(talk) (contribs)} 04:30, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

But now you've removed the MOJO Mag article ref!!! What I had to start with was what is needed. Look - I opened a specific section here asking for last-minute commentary about removing those anon blog crap "refs" that were complained about years ago. Only one person made any sort of comment at all. You failed to AGF. You should have discussed HERE, instead of reverting. I have cancelled what I was beginning to do, since you've now agreed these were totally unfit WIKI references (this is, after all, an encyclopedia.) I had even posted the 'dubious' template besides those earlier "references" to try to ensure would come to the TP to challenge it beforehand. I took more than reasonable steps - I didn't just "be bold" (as I could have) - because I know that as a fan of the ISB, there are lots of crazies out there that will believe anything they read on a forum board or someone's personal blog and start up with ownership issues. Additionally, with several YouTube, etc., videos out there showing a young 1970 Lickki, that just adds fuel to the fire - of course, those persons don't consider that was 46 years ago, and their 'crush' on her might swiftly change if she was still alive and 70-plus years old.  :-) Let me go restore the MOJO ref. 98.67.190.23 (talk) 04:41, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

You're more than welcome to express your concerns on my talk page if you're willing to calm down and discuss your grievances peacefully. I'll be happy to assist you and work with you to improve the article if you choose to do this. I really hope to see you there. We're all editors here looking to achieve the same goals; lets achieve it together :-) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Oshwah (talk • contribs) 07:21, 9 April 2016

As someone who contributed to the article years ago (I can't recall exactly what I put in, but it may well have included blog posts), I'm happy both with Oshwah's removal of the blog posts, and with 98.67.190.23's retention of the Mojo reference. I've added more detail from the Be Glad book, covering what her sister said about her. I don't understand why this couldn't have been achieved without the unnecessary threats and aggravation, but there you go... Ghmyrtle (talk) 07:35, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

Ghmyrtle - I really don't either. I simply wanted to ask about the sources and what should be kept and what shouldn't. But yeah, that happened... :-) ~Oshwah~^{(talk) (contribs)} 07:36, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

re - Whitaker's book - do you have the updated/revised 2013 edition? Did he finally take out the remark about the anecdotal "postcard" story that he got from the internet board, just like everybody else did? Marc Ellen TALKED to her sister in 2000, and she made no mention of any such postcard. I've read that her sister is now deceased? The ISB Comp. is a RS, but it had errors . . . 98.67.190.23 (talk) 16:58, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

The Whitaker quote in the 2003 book comes from an interview that he had with her sister, Frances Harding, in 2000. The mentions on board and blog pages would have come later, from that published interview, not the other way round. Ghmyrtle (talk) 21:53, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

Recent edits

I've reverted recent changes here because, as well as being poorly written, they are unnecessary and in my view somewhat misleading. In my view she is not a "person who disappeared mysteriously" in the sense intended - so far as we (or anyone) knows, she has not been the subject of a missing persons inquiry, and much of the evidence is simply that she wanted to break ties with her past. She has disappeared from public view (and that of her family and former friends), but in my view that does not justify her inclusion in a "missing person" or "mysterious disappearance" category. Ghmyrtle (talk) 16:30, 28 April 2017 (UTC) PS: To quote from the Be Glad book, p.301 in my edition - from a 2000 interview with her sister, Frances Harding: "The last letter from her is dated 1990, and that's certainly from Sacramento. She seems to have had some major surgery and is recovering, but is not feeling either strong physically or entirely at ease mentally. She had a tough time, I think...". Ghmyrtle (talk) 17:04, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

Editors here will, I'm sure, be interested in some of the recent posts on this Facebook page, from which it appears that Licorice is (as of 2019) alive and living in California. Ghmyrtle (talk) 12:58, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

The opinion of that guy on Facebook is not based on any serious knowledge about her whereabouts, its just his opinion that he thinks she still might be alive. I don‘t think this is a veritable source worth to be quoted in the article. Please remove that Facebook quotation from the article, its worse than a rumour. 17:22, 24 June 2021 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:C9:6F37:F410:CDF9:81C6:3E5F:35D7 (talk)

"...turned up in 2019" ??

In Richard Thompson's memoir Beeswing, he writes: "Licorice McKechnie, Robin's girlfriend, disappeared for about thirty-five years, having been last seen hitch-hiking across the Arizona desert, and only turned up in 2019." This blog suggests that Thompson may have confused her with Shelagh McDonald, but McDonald re-emerged in 2005. There's also some discussion here and here. Can anyone shed any more light on this? Is Richard Thompson a reliable source, or was he simply repeating unreliable rumours? Ghmyrtle (talk) 10:13, 26 February 2024 (UTC)