Talk:Leroy A. Mendonca

Having difficulty uploading image

I am presently having difficulty uploading an image that is found here. Image is in the public domain and should be added to this article to enhance it. Any assistance would be appreciated. --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 22:53, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

Isn't that the same image that's already used in the article? — jwillbur 21:39, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Oh you added it yourself, never mind. — jwillbur 21:59, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Sorry about that, I found that the image in question had already been uploaded for use on the List of Korean War Medal of Honor recipients page, therefore I copied it here. --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 23:17, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Origin of Mendonca

User:Uncle Leroy july 4 insists on removing "was a Filipino[1][2][3]" from the lead of this article. Examining the various sources suggests that the first two may be mistakes, even though sourced to the US Department of Defense. The other sources show that he was born in Honolulu, so I have removed this statement. Jezhotwells (talk) 21:50, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

The content that was removed was supported by multiple reliable sources. I have added additional references from reliable sources, as well as better defined place of burial with a source. If there is a reference that is in question, tag it, and bring it up to WP:RSN before removal. I greatly appreciate the time of other editors who are editing this article in an attempt to improve it, however facts are facts. --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 05:05, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

Furthermore, statements stating that the subject is related to a user may pose conflict of interest issues, and information may be considered original research. Although I do not believe that is the intention of any users who are attempting to improve this article, without references to negate the multiple reliable sources, to remove content would at this time be uncalled for, IMHO.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 05:26, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

Due to continuing deletion, and violation of WP:3RR, I have referred this article to WP:BLPN. Please see this articles entry. --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 00:59, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

I've commented on BLPN. The sources identifying him as Filipino American need to be fixed. I agree with the conflict issue. I'm don't think the editor violated 3RR because I don't believe there were 4 reverts in a 24-hour period, but I looked quickly and have to sign off for the day.

To Jezhotwells: the article actually says that he's Filipino American and Portuguese American because Filipinio modifies American, so it's not saying he was born outside the U.S.--Bbb23 (talk) 01:35, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

Not to mention removing Filipino-American but retaining Portuguese-American by the rationale that he is born in the US is a bit questionable. Are Americans of Portuguese descent more American than Americans of Filipino descent? The User who kept removing the mention of ethnicity still has yet to show references saying he is 100% Portuguese. Hawaii also has a very sizable Filipino-American population since the early 1900's (from the Sakada settlers), his being born in Honolulu does not automatically invalidate Filipino ancestry, it actually makes it more likely (than say... if he was born in New York). It's the most ethnically mixed state of the U.S. Verifiability not 'truth' (however that's interpreted). If the US govt sources rescind their identification of him as Filipino and Portuguese American, then we have basis for removing it. Otherwise, it's the testimony of an anonymous user claiming to be a niece versus the US Department of Defense.--Obsidi♠n^Soul 10:51, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

My error; there were only three reversions. That being said I had stopped editing the article due to it being a present location of an edit war. --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 18:05, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

If we can reach a consensus that the individuals ethnicity contributes to the significants/notability of the subject of this article, and that both ethnicities are referenced, and therefore both should be included in the article, such as it was prior to the removal of the Filipino wikilink/text and its references then we can restore it. --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 13:15, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Is there a diff to the version you want to seek consensus for? Off2riorob (talk) 13:18, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

An old version with mention of both Filipino American and Portuguese American ethnicities mentioned, with their associated references.

Or failing that, creating a new section titled Early life, mentioning in prose the subject's place of birth, ethnicities (as previously referenced), High School of graduation, and enlistment (at the very least). --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 14:08, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

As of this time, it does not appear that there is contention of mentioning the individual's ethnicity, as much as there is contention of one ethnicity per a statement by someone who claims to be distantly related to the subject. Both ethnicities were referenced by reliable sources, there fall inclusion in this article meets with WP:VER requirement; therefore, I have no problem with including both ethnicities, as it was before. --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 04:30, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

Here is a link of the archived discussion regarding the subject of this article. --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 14:14, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

• - Early life, mentioning in prose the subject's place of birth, ethnicities (as previously referenced), High School of graduation, and enlistment - I like this idea, with the cites well laid out inline with the claims. Not six cites in a line but the specific ones only that support the content. - perhaps if you post it here so that any objections or comments can be sorted. Off2riorob (talk) 14:30, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

How about this, for a start: "Leroy was born in the Territory of Hawaii, and is claimed to be of Filipino(reference(s)) and Portuguese(reference(s)) heritage. He graduated from President William McKinley High School in 1950, and was a cadet of AJROTC while attending.(reference)." --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 15:16, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

Yes - reported to be is better imo - even we are encouraged to remove reported and claimed and allow the detail to be supported by the citations - Off2riorob (talk) 16:30, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

So then it would be better if it read like this:

"Leroy was born in Honolulu, Territory of Hawaii, on 2 August 1932, and is of Filipino(reference(s)) and Portuguese(reference(s)) ethnicity. While attending President William McKinley High School, he was a AJROTC cadet, and graduated in 1950.(reference)"

? --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 11:32, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

I would say so. Off2riorob (talk) 11:44, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

In a recent deletion, it is claimed that the references provided have retracted the statement that the subject of this article is not-filipino, and is in fact "100% Portuguese". Can someone provide support that a retraction did in fact occur from all sources? --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 14:37, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

Hello all, I was the one who recently remove the reference of Filipino decent and I understand it was changed back. The message that was left to me asked me why I did this and questioned conflict of interest. I would like to post the information I have that comes directly from the family and also explain how I got involved for those who questioned it.

I got my information from Mr. Mendonca's family, they were referred to me by the editor Malia Zimmerman of Hawaii Reporter who was a source of an article that was recently retracted. Duane Vachon who originally wrote the article and then retracted the reference to Filipino origin, was provided the same information that was forwarded to me. Mr. Vachon is a respected historian and Veteran and writes regularly on the subject. I thought I provided enough references that reflected the retractions and I noticed some of those sources were removed. I find it strange that someone would remove the references that once said he was Filipino and then retracted it. That source was important to back up my purpose for removing what I did.

Just to be clear, I have never met the family, am not related in anyway and have no personal interest in this other than to share the information and correct the issue based on what they sent me. The family wrote a very strong letter and are very upset about this issue and provided me with information on the retractions they got, which was the basis for my correction. They contacted every previously cited source and have successfully managed to get them to retract the statement. I believe the retractions and removal of the information in the previous sources warrants deletion of the Filipino Reference. I think the families comments and efforts should be carefully reviewed, it is clearly a big issue for them. It seems to me the family would know the truth and have worked very hard to prove the issue. I am not sure how or why it is suspected I am engaging in sockpuppetry, my account isn't new, I am a new editor but I have edited before and used my real name anyone can google me and see who I am. And there is no conflict of interest here, I am just trying to keep wikipedia accurate, especially since it provided a source for several inaccurate follow up articles.

Here is an excerpt of the long message I got from the family. I believe it explains very well what has been going on and what they have done to fix the source information:

"Why he wishes to insist Leroy is Filipino? I even had Vice Admiral's Brewer's article changed and they omitted Leroy. Then Wikipedia puts all the incorrect references back and keeps Leroy as Filipino. I don't know why this one gentleman is so against the truth??

Wikipedia is still using the same old references from Defense Equal Opportunity Management Institute authored by Rudi Williams, Vice Admiral Brewer letter and Washington State Filipino Community letter. All of these reverences have retracted their statements. The Defense Equal Opportunity Management Institute has been very helpful. I believe the miss-information started their with a Rudi Williams. They are currently fixing the issue, see below for contact information.

Ref 1. I don't know how his grave site shows he is Filipino. It does show the MEDAL OF HONOR. I see the grave site is not supposed to be considered an accurate source of information as they most lkly got this information from Wikipedia.

Ref 2 &9 Cemeteries Duane Vachon wrote an article for the Hawaii Reporter " All Gave Some Some Gave All." Mr Vachon has retracted his statement that Leroy was Filipino and the Hawaii Reporter has issued a correction.

Ref 5 Washington State letter should of been retracted soon. I have e-mailed them again.

Ref 3,4,6 & 7 Defense Equal Opportunity Management Insitute is going to retract all references from Rudi Williams stating Leroy was Filipino. You can call Jollean Horton at 321-494-1584 or the Chaplain at 321-494-4254.

REf. 12 Sealift command letter from Vice Admiral Brewer removed Leroy Mendonca name from the letter 4th paragraph from the bottom.

Leroy's sister Lucille Mendonca still lives in Hawaii she can provide information if needed. Always use Gibbons when speaking about Adele. Gibbons was Adele's mother married named. Also Retired Col. Thomas Mendonca U.S. Army still lives in Hawaii. The family calls him Skippy.

My wife's mother, Leroy's sister, Gen Gibbons was the sponsor of Leroy's ship, UNSN Mendonca. If you need pictures we can send them to you from the Christening of the ship and the family at the ship's maiden voyage.

I have contacted my Congresswoman and she has the Army looking into the false information. I have received two letters from her. Also I have written the new Joint Chief of Staff, previously the Army Chief of Staff, and the Under Secretary of the Army to correct any false information about Leroy."

That is the end of the info send to me. thanks!Dani808 (talk) 23:02, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

What portion above is from the letter, and what part is the users own statement?

Is the User Dani808 wife's mother Leroy Mendonca's sister, or is that part of the letter that the user claims to have?

Can links to the retractions please be provided?

The bases of the ethnicity statement is due to WP:VER. I initiated the COIN referal in regards to the editor who was claiming to be a family member of the subject of the article.

Has the interested parties that User Dani808 claims to have contact with contacted WP:OTRS? --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 04:08, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

(edit conflict)

I must say, very good research there. My previous objections to the removal was based on the fact that the reasons given before you were simply inadequate. The real problem is that the source contradicting the family's claims is the US Armed Forces, and they are looked upon as more reliable than any user's posts here. And determining if they are really family is simply impossible for us. This is, of course, the fault of the sources (USAF), not of Wikipedia, as such they must be the ones who retract the statements first before we do per WP:V.

That said, I suggest you do as Tiggerjay suggested below and forward all the information you think is necessary to prove that the inclusion of Filipino descent is incorrect to WP:OTRS. That way a permanent record accessible by other people becomes available for Wikipedia. You can send full contact details there as emails to OTRS are confidential and only accessible by OTRS volunteers who in turn can verify the information for the rest of the community. This may be enough for us to remove references to Filipino descent, that way we won't have to wait for the USAF/US govt to retract their statements.-- Obsidi♠n^Soul 04:29, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

In answer to the question above, the section in the "Quotes" was the letter from the family. I added a space and an ending to make that more clear. Ok so I will forward the family the information on this page and ask them to provide all supporting documentation and will forward it accordingly.Dani808 (talk) 09:44, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification. --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 20:58, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

OK Y'all I have an update. It seems that the main issue was the article from the military, and that has been corrected. The link is: http://www.defense.gov/News/NewsArticle.aspx?ID=41564 . AND I have posted the letter from the family and the entire chain of correspondence from the Dept. of Defense that shows who was involved, that they apologized to the family and all their contact info. Here it is: http://www.bosshi.com/info-for-wiki/ Dani808 (talk) 06:01, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Good work. While I'd have preferred you forwarded a copy of the exchange to OTRS (to keep a permanent copy), the changes in the US Dept of Defense article is good enough for me. Thank you.

I've also added a commented out warning on the article itself to prevent future reinsertions of the Filipino ancestry claim. And for OTRS volunteers who may receive the email from the US govt, kindly add a note of that to the article once available.-- Obsidi♠n^Soul 07:18, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Many thanks, I will let the family know. I appreciate your patience and am glad we can put this issue to rest. Dani808 (talk) 04:52, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Referal to WP:COI/N

Due to a recent edit I am refering this article to COIN. Interested editors can follow link provided. --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 12:43, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

I have reviewed the issue and have left comments for the recent editors which appear to be involved in this conflict. I have also reverted the recent edits [1] since the claim in an edit summary is not sufficient. I have notified the most recent poster to submit information to WP:OTRS or to post reliable sources inline. Also a strong warning to everyone involved about Edit Warring and it will be quickly addressed as need. Tiggerjay (talk) 16:59, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

FindGrave

I know that Find a Grave, is often not seen as a reliable source, however found the subject's entry. Should this be included somewhere in this article? --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 16:22, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

As I have seen - only as an external and then only if it adds something - which in this case it does seem to do - the pic of the memorial stone etc. Off2riorob (talk) 16:26, 14 May 2011 (UTC)