Talk:Leningrad Military District

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6th Army

The 6th Army is an Anti Aircraft Army (PVO) and not an Combined Arms Army. See http://nvo.ng.ru/concepts/2006-07-14/4_upravlenie.html -- mrg3105 mrg3105 00:09, 31 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Mrg, check the book I sent you (or Vad777's site). The 6th Army of Combined Arms was active after the war in the LVO for years, and disbanded in 97-98, according to Andrew Duncan's pieces in Jane's Intelligence Review, drawing on Conventional Forces in Europe data. The 76th Air Army of the VVS and the 6th Army of the PVO were indeed amalgamated as the 6th Army of VVS and PVO in 1998. Buckshot06 (talk) 01:43, 31 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I can't believe it! How can a Combined Arms Army and one of PVO be 'amalgamated'?! I would be SERIOUSLY checking Duncan's sources. Its about as likely as amalgamating the Austalian Army and RAAF. Its not even a good joke. The two formations are part of different Service structure, have different operational requirements and this is aside from tactical and technical issues. -- mrg3105 mrg3105 02:06, 31 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

READ WHAT I WROTE. TWO (1+1) DIFFERENT FORMATIONS.

1. 6th Combined Arms Army. Active in mid 1990s. See [1] Not active after 1998. See [2] - check the author's name on the source they quote, by the way.

2. Soviet Air Force's 76th Air Army. Active from 1980s to 1998. Amalgamated with Soviet Air Defence Forces' 6th Air Army.

This should be very clear. One ground forces' combined arms army, disbanded in 1998.

One army of the Air Forces, the VVS, amalgamated with another army of the PVO, coincidentally in 1998. Buckshot06 (talk) 02:28, 31 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I got to get more sleep Buckshot! I think you would be getting quite exasperated with me. I just looked at that and 76th just didn't look like an Air Army numeral so my subconscious just filed under Combined Arms. I wonder how that Army happened? Probably a former Air Corps. My apologies again. BTW, did you serve in the 1st Squadron RAAF? Cheers-- mrg3105 mrg3105 06:12, 31 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No. I just liked the callsign. BTW, never '1st Squadron RAAF', as I'm sure you know, rather No.1 Squadron RAAF Buckshot06 (talk) 08:18, 31 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I did not, but all these Soviet st,rd,nds are getting to me ;o) -- mrg3105 mrg3105 08:32, 31 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Talking of the 6th Air Army, appreciate the expansion you've done. However I've just checked by copy of Slaughterhouse and I do not understand why you say the 6 VA descends from the 13 VA. 13 VA, says Slaughterhouse, was formed in Nov 42, after 6 VA in June 42, and was serving with a different Front - Leningrad. What connection does it have to 6 VA? Buckshot06 (talk) 08:38, 31 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, I got carried away (it happens to me a lot unfortunately) :o). The Modern 6th VA takes over the 76th's legacy also, and 13th VA was reflagged as the 76th VA (1949). The 13th was originally the Leningrad MD's PVO command before the war. I wasn't looking in Slaughterhouse. By the way, the Army is slated to receive the S-400 systems, but I didn't know if that should be included.-- mrg3105 mrg3105 09:33, 31 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Leningrad Military District is a military district of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation.

There are two problems with this article AFAIC.

The Petersburg Military District belonged to another country called the Russian Empire.

On the assumption that the current MD is a direct descendant of the Soviet MD, current article's intro should say so.

--Shattered Wikiglass (talk) 07:41, 11 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

How Russian Ministry of Defence formats its web pages is not a guideline to how it should be done in Wikipedia! RuMD simply gave a historical reference to the history of the military formations, but in no way implied the two were related any more then the Guards units of the RuMD are inheritors of the Imperial Russian Guard. RuMD's site is not a reference work, only a source of information--Shattered Wikiglass (talk) 08:56, 11 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The only thing they didn't do is say 'We SPECIFICALLY associate the history of these two formations' . They expect people to make the connection themselves with the organisations' history following on from each other and mentioned in order.. Buckshot06 (talk) 10:49, 11 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, they did specifically disassociated the two entities, but the site was selectively translated! In fact while the Tsarst Petrograd district is in bold in the article, on the site it is the Petrograd Military District of RKKA that's in bold. Here it is:

Для руководства строительством Красной Армии постановлением Совета народных комиссаров Петроградской трудовой коммуны от 23 марта 1918 г., для управления округом был создан Комиссариат по военным делам Петроградской трудовой коммуны во главе с коллегией военных комиссаров. Поскольку работа Комиссариата сильно осложнялась отсутствием типового штатного окружного аппарата, приказом Высшего военного совета № 71 от 6 сентября 1918 г. был образован Петроградский военный округ РККА.[3]

The prior entity on creation of the Soviet Union was the Commissariat for military matters of the Petrograd working commune's collegiate of military commissars. The Petrograd military district of the RKKA created on the 6 September 1918 was created because the collegiate couldn't cope due to lack of appropriate staff (and probably pronouncing the name). No connection whats so ever with the Tsarst entity at all. The historical reference s just that, documenting history of military administration in Sankt-Peterburg area. Truth is, it doesn't go far enough since there were Military Inspectorates beforehand that were later changed to divisional areas of administration before 1864.--Shattered Wikiglass (talk) 21:15, 11 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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