Talk:Lenape Stone

Dinosaurs

I have removed the reference to dinosaurs. They became extinct about 65 million years ago. Wooly mammoths became effectively extinct about 12,000 years ago. A few survived until about 1700 BC. No human ever saw a live dinosaur. Avalon 12:08, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Other mammoth carving found in North America

It is no longer true that no other carving of mammoth have been found in North America, as this WP article contends. http://www.oviasc.org/Vero-Epic-Find--Old-Vero-Ice-Age-Sites-Commitee--preserving-and-appropriately-excavating-important-Ice-Age-archaeological-and-paleontological-sites-in-Vero-Beach-and-Indian-River-County.html http://www.rennickauctions.com/Archaeological-Journal.html Also, the evidence of human interaction with mammoth and other mega-fauna in North America has become robust. http://anthropology.si.edu/staff/Stanford/Stanford.html http://www.youtube.com/user/OVIASC/featured Bkobres (talk) 18:21, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

I'll try to change that tomorrow. But it's irrelevant to the authenticity of the stone given the dates. Dougweller (talk) 20:05, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

The dating of this artifact will remain uncertain unless a similar piece is found in context. The area where this stone was found is now know to be a rich and complex natural repository of human artifacts that extends into the Pleistocene era.

http://si-pddr.si.edu/jspui/bitstream/10088/11286/1/anth_QSR_2010_Delmarva_Upland_Stratigraphy_Article_Lowery_et_al_2010.pdf http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Poverty_Point_gorgets_atlatl_weights_HRoe_2009.jpg

Finding parts of an artifact on different occasions is not unprecedented and so does not affect an argument for authenticity one way or another.

http://www.arrowheadology.com/forums/content/rarest-indian-relic-finds-33/

The artifact was not sold soon after being found as the WP article now states. There was, according to accounts recorded by Mercer, around a 10 year time span between the finding of the larger piece and any transference of ownership.

http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/lstone_b.html

STATEMENT OF BERNARD Z. HANSELL.

ON the writer's second visit to Hansell, the latter was at his father's farm. He stated that the photographs shown him were representations of the stone, and said that he considered that he had been cheated. He had had no idea of the stone's value, and declared that it was a "mean trick," the purchase of all his relics-the stone included-for $2.50. When it was explained to him that Mr. Paxon, the purchaser, had been as ignorant as he in the matter at the time, he seemed satisfied.

On the third visit, February 10th, Hansell said:

I am sure that I found the large piece first, in the spring of 1872 (the year after my father bought the place-1871), and while "ploughing for oats" in the "corner" field, and near the corner where the by-road joins the Durham road the roots of the last year's corn crop had shortly before been harrowed out. It was in April. When I saw it, it was lying on the top of the ground, a little to one side of the furrow. I stopped and picked it up ; it seemed like "something different" from what I had ever found before. It was dirty-dirt stuck to the stone; by rubbing, I could see lines-"queer marks" over it. (When I afterward saw it at Mr. Paxon's, the latter had "cleaned it.")

I am certain I saw an animal like an elephant on it before Mr. Paxon saw the stone. I carried it around a day or two in my pocket, and then put it in a box along with the other things; and whatever arrow-heads and other relics I found, I would put into the same box. The same day, I planted a cornstalk into the ground to mark the place--a shower might wash out something else, I thought. I left the cornstalk until the hats harvest, and then threw a stone there, but I soon came to now the place by heart. The box with the relics I kept locked up in my trunk, and I took care to keep it locked, there were so many boys about. In the meantime, I was married. I showed the relics and stone to my wife, but she could not remember the elephant on the stone. I might have showed it to father, or might not, I am not sure. He could not remember. In the same field, I and others on the place found arrow-heads, coins (English and American pennies), and a part of a tomahawk or banner stone (sold to Mr. Paxon). I did not find any thing else in that field, but "gorget stones" without inscriptions, and round stone balls, with incisions on sides, were found near by.

In the spring of 1881, Mr. Paxon asked, me whether I had any Indian relics. I said that I had. I told him I would be home on Sunday, and he came the next Sunday afternoon about May or June, as nearly as I can recollect,-1881 I brought out the box of relics, and told him that I would sell him the perfect arrow-heads for ten cents, and the broken ones five cents apiece. I had a broken tomahawk and a piece of another, and I laid them and the stone aside, and said I thought I would keep them. But he did not take much interest in the rest, and said he wanted all the relics. He did not look much at the arrow-heads, but he picked up the stone and turned it around, and wet his thumb and rubbed it. He did not say any thing about the stone. I did not much want to sell him the stone, for I never saw any thing like it before.

But he said he would take all the relics or none for $2.50. So I let him have them. At the same time he asked me whether I had not the other piece; perhaps I had, he said, and did not know it. I told him that I had not.

About a month after that time, he came by on foot and asked me whether I had found any thing more? I said that I had not. " If you do," he said, "keep it and give me the first chance."

I always had the other piece in my mind, and when I went in the field I used to look for it. I would walk a I round the spot in a circle, for I thought some one might have picked it up and then thrown it away again.

After we had cut the corn in the field, and as I went in to husk, I happened to pass near the place-I always remember the place,-I was thinking of the other piece, and was hardly in the field before I picked it up. I noticed the marks and the shape, and saw at once that it was the missing piece. It had notches around the edges. I put it in my pocket and laid it in the drawer. My wife never saw it. It was the little piece. I was married then and in my own house, and there was nobody about the house, so I did not lock it up.

This was in the fall-after the exhibition at Doylestown (October), in 1881. When I went down to Mr. Paxon's father's, Squire Paxon's, to pay my tax, on the 9th of November, 1881, I took this piece along. Young Mr. Paxon was not at home, but I waited till he came back. I said I had something "pretty nice" for him, and showed him the missing piece. He thought when he saw it that I would make him pay pretty dear for it, but I told him that I would give it to him. I had not rubbed or cleaned it. He put the pieces together and said "that is the missing piece." He took me up to his room and gave me some minerals. I advised him to glue the pieces together with "hickory cement." I had some of this cement at home, and offered to give it to him.

The next spring I saw the stone again, all washed and cleaned. It did not look altered-only clean and rubbed off. I saw it again this February (1884) when you and Mr. Paxon came to see me, and I saw no change in it.

I never sold a relic before I sold those to Harry Paxon, and never knew any one from Philadelphia that took any interest in Indian relics. I used to give things away to relatives of mine, often boys--my cousins, when they came up from town. They had never seen any thing like an arrow-head before. I never gave a stone to any one but a relative. William Hansell, my brother, a little boy, saw me pick up the small piece of the Lenape Stone. I never heard of any one in this neighborhood interested in Indian relics before Mr. Paxon.

The first things that I remember giving away were a couple of black arrow-heads that I gave to James Aikens, in 1871. He lives in Germantown. This was before I found the stone.

[Signed] BERNARD Z. HANSELL.

Sworn to before

BENJAMIN S. RICH, J. P., Nov. 6, 1884.

The writer questioned Hansell's wife. She remembered his having shown her the relics before they were sold to Mr. Paxon, but had paid no attention to "these little stones he picks up," and did not remember whether "this stone you are talking about" was among them or not. The writer also questioned Hansell's father and mother. Neither had seen the stone. The boy, William Hansell, brother of Bernard, said that he had seen the little piece when Bernard picked it up, but had never seen the large piece of the stone. The piece he had seen was covered with dirt and mud, and had "half a hole" in it. Bernard had told him that he was going to give it to Mr. Paxon.

STATEMENT OF MR. HENRY D. PAXON.

I remember Hansell telling me of his Indian relics at my father's office. I went to see him on a Sunday, and he showed me, in the wood-shed, a tobacco-box half full of relics, among them the large piece of the Lenape Stone. At the time I never realized what it was. It was covered with dirt, as were all the relics. There must have been about two hundred arrow-heads, broken and perfect, besides a broken axe and fragments of a banner stone, and one or two large spears and so-called "gigs." The stone struck me as an extraordinary Indian relic. Buying the relics, I brought them home that Sunday afternoon, and at once showed them to my father. He saw the elephant. Whether I had noticed it before I cannot remember. Mr. John S. Ash saw this first piece-the large piece-before Capt. Bailey saw it. I showed it to any and everybody that came to my father's office, but can only be sure now of Mr. Ash. Capt. Bailey saw it and borrowed it while preparing his article. I had it at the Bucks County Bi-Centennial Exhibition, August 31, September 1 and 2, 1882. I did not particularly value the stone until I read Capt. Bailey's article. I cleaned out the soil which clung to the stone with a toothbrush, and may also have used a stick-but I think not a nail.

[Signed] HENRY D. PAXON.

Sworn to before

ELIAS EASTBURN, J. P., Nov. 8, 1884. Bkobres (talk) 17:47, 11 July 2012 (UTC)