Talk:Lemar Durant

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A fact from Lemar Durant appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 7 September 2015 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that gridiron football player Lemar Durant achieved both the single-game conference record for touchdowns and season conference record for catches in his first year with the Simon Fraser Clan?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2015/September. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Lemar Durant.

Wikipedia

First college program

@CFLDaily: I noticed that you changed his first college program to UNR instead of UNLV. I've included a citation in the article that supports that he attended UNLV, and I've not found any sources that say otherwise. You seem to have cited a Wikipedia article as a source for the change, but the article doesn't mention Durant at all. Additionally, Wikipedia is not a reliable source as per WP:CIRCULAR. Did you find a source that led you to believe he attended UNR instead of UNLV? Obviously, if you have found him attached to UNR in any reliable sources, it would be a good idea for us to work together and figure out which of our sources is actually correct. For now, in the absence of a source, I've reverted to UNLV. ~ Rob^Talk 00:00, 28 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I checked out some of the sources you provided, and looked for a few additional ones. I found at least three sources that say UNLV, but they're all small local papers. I've found more reputable papers, such as the Ottawa Sun, that mention the Wolf Pack. I'll leave it as Reno for now, as I think right now there's higher quality sources in favor of Reno than in favor of UNLV. As for the number of years he redshirted, I found an Ottawa Sun article here that claims it was two years. The TSN article you linked earlier also stated two years. Unless more reliable sources can be provided to show it was only one year, I think it should remain at two for now. Please post reliable sources here before changing it back to one year. You may also be interested in reading the essay WP:NOTTRUTH, as I think it may pertain to this situation. Given your personal history with the topic, WP:OR may apply as well. ~ Rob^Talk 02:39, 28 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

As a side note, the other piece of evidence that supports two seasons of redshirting is the timeline itself. We know from reputable sources that his last season in high school was 2009 and his first season at SF was 2012; that is not contested anywhere. This leaves the 2010 and 2011 seasons open, and seems to support that he was at Reno for two seasons (unless he took a year entirely off, which no sources indicate). ~ Rob^Talk 02:41, 28 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, okay found some helpful information: Great essay. Definitely important to have accurate information, as the internet is full of inaccurate sources and information. One example is his knee condition being called an "injury" for so long, because he happened to be playing football when it flared. Regarding time frame - Durant himself says he attended Nevada for a year then came home in this article. https://www.canadafootballchat.com/class-2012-lemar-durant-seeks-success-in-homecoming-video/ You can also see he is not on Nevada roster for 2011. Here's a link to UNR's official football website: http://www.nevadawolfpack.com/sports/m-footbl/archive/unv-m-footbl-archive.html Here's UNR's 2010 signees off the official website: http://www.nevadawolfpack.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/020310aab.html On this page you can access their 2011 Roster: http://www.nevadawolfpack.com/sports/m-footbl/archive/unv-m-footbl-archive.html http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/unv/sports/m-footbl/auto_pdf/2011-12/misc_non_event/2011-footbl-roster.pdf

CFLDaily (talk) 16:09, 28 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@CFLDaily: Generally, secondary sources are preferred over primary sources. I've looked but not found any secondary sources that say only a year or specify the date he went to Nevada. Do you know of any sources that say what he did in 2010 or even mention when he committed to UNR? At this point, given the conflicting information in reliable sources, I'm leaning towards removing a reference to time from that section entirely, but let's exhaust the search for sources before we look at that. ~ Rob^Talk 17:46, 28 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Okay found a few more sources. The information is available. Curious as to why the Official University of Reno Nevada Football website itself be considered a reliable source. This article says he committed in 2010: http://www.nevadawolfpack.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/020310aab.html 2010 University of Nevada Football Signees Scout.com http://www.scout.com/player/118552-lemar-durant/ http://www.scout.com/topic/players?s=143&team=Nevada&minimumInterest=SoftVerbal&category=Football%20Recruiting&league=HS&classYear=2010 http://espn.go.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/school/_/id/2440/class/2010 And as I said he's not listed on their 2011 official website roster. CFLDaily (talk) 18:28, 28 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The UNR site is reliable, but not preferable. When possible, citing secondary sources is best. See WP:PRIMARY for some more detail on how primary, secondary, and tertiary sources are used. I think I misunderstood. You're saying he was at UNR in 2010, but not in 2011, so rather than needing to cite when he signed, we need to cite when he left. We have the lower bound of 2009 (when we know he was in high school) and the upper bound of 2012 (when we know he was at SF). I'm starting to wonder whether those sources I found for two years just took that to mean he was at UNR for two years, but still, we'd need to support that somehow. I'll do some digging later today on if I can find a press release or something of when he left UNR. ~ Rob^Talk 19:11, 28 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I think you're right, because he was not playing for a year, when he came back, while he attended Douglas College to pick up courses to be eligible for SFU, so when he returned onto the scene all they knew was he was signed at UNR, so based on assumption. Okay I'll have a look too, clearly he wasn't listed on their official roster in 2011, and the interview on Canada football chat with him, he says he was just there a year, which would be 2010- 2011. I found one article saying he left written by a Nevada sports writer, but I couldn't post it because the link is not accepted. CFLDaily (talk) 19:24, 28 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Looks like there was a few tweets regarding his leaving, and a link or two, but- the content of those links is no longer accessable. http://topsy.com/trackback?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rgj.com%2Fsection%2Fblogs16%3FU%3Dcf54a7c3-6850-4148-9710-effa04ad5005%26plckBlogPage%3DBlogViewPost%26plckController%3DBlog%26plckElementId%3DblogDest%26plckPostId%3DBlog%253Acf54a7c3-6850-4148-9710-effa04ad5005Post%253A974d3765-709c-493e-8791-b38b1b2f3f3d%26plckScript%3DblogScript http://archive.rgj.com/article/20110812/SPORTS06/110812021/Blog-Pack-notes-WR-Durant-leaves-program-few-players-switch-positions CFLDaily (talk) 20:10, 28 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@CFLDaily: There's enough contradictions between reliable sources that I don't think it's possible to say with certainty (in the sense of WP:V) that he was at UNR for one or two years. In the end, the detail is not terribly meaningful to his overall story. His time at UNR is clearly a non-factor due to the knee issue. Since the knee is where the real "story" is, I've tried to sidestep the issue by rewording the section to remove any reference to a specific time period. Is that edit satisfactory to you? ~ Rob^Talk 04:02, 29 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

You're right. Lots of different information floating around. It's not really important, especially at this stage of the game. What you've done looks great! Thanks for the edit. CFLDaily (talk) 04:32, 29 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I got verification regarding the number of years Durant was in Nevada straight from the horses mouth, Lemar Durant's official verified twitter page: https://twitter.com/Drae_Lockerroom/status/626439086023114752 It might be good to provide some clarity, as it's been in question for a while. CFLDaily (talk) 16:51, 30 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Until the secondary sources clear it up and correct the mistake, I think it should still be left out for now. WP:OR probably applies until this is adopted by secondary sources. ~ Rob^Talk 17:50, 30 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, just thought I would check, since it came directly from him. It seems as though this WP:OR wouldn't apply to living biographies as they are always changing? Thank you :) CFLDaily (talk) 22:01, 30 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

OR applies to all articles. Basically, policy on Wikipedia is that we wait until reliable sources (newspapers or other news sources, books, etc) cover something before we include it on the site. For instance, if I were in New York City on September 11, 2001 and witnessed the events there, I should not add that to Wikipedia until the media begins reporting on it. In this case, the reliable sources are conflicted. In BLPs, you usually have to take what primary sources say with a grain of salt. For instance, I've edited articles before where it has become clear that the living person is misrepresenting their age purposefully to appear younger than they are. I do not think that's happening here and am not alleging that Durant is lying, but just noting why we prefer secondary sources. In this case, the sources are pretty much a clusterfuck. ~ Rob^Talk 22:10, 30 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah I agree they sure are. Gotya :) Thanks.CFLDaily (talk) 22:37, 30 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]