Jump to content

Talk:2020 Lekki shooting

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Redirected from Talk:Lekki massacre)

Feedback from New Page Review process

[edit]

I left the following feedback for the creator/future reviewers while reviewing this article: Thank You So Very Much For Creating This Article.

Celestina007 (talk) 22:49, 21 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]


This article is weak and overtly partisan. Reports by independent news outlets like Reuters and Associated Press called it Lekki Shootings, which is bad enough. Reaching for the "massacre" hyperbole devalues it. --Kiibaati (talk) 12:49, 25 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It's 5 days after the event and a couple of facts are yet to be established. First, did the Nigerian army shoot in the air or shoot directly at the protesters? For the 2 deaths reported by the state government, were they as a result of gunshots? For the 15 deaths reported by DJ Switch, how is she sure they were dead? Were they confirmed by authorized medical personnel? Also, there is no other evidence to corroborate her claim up till now. In light of the foregoing, it's best that this article is renamed "Lekki Shootings" until verified information is available to confirm that there was indeed a massacre.--Bioye (talk) 13:13, 25 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 22 October 2020

[edit]
The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: No consensus. No consensus to move at this point. (non-admin closure) Vpab15 (talk) 14:30, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]


Lekki massacre → Lekki incident – It just happened 2 days ago. It's far from definitive what happened. Massacre is a really big word right now. TheGroninger (talk) 21:35, 22 October 2020 (UTC) -- Reopening discussion following move review signed, Rosguill talk 19:37, 22 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion reopened following move review signed, Rosguill talk 19:37, 22 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The result of the move request was: Page not moved, SNOW. (non-admin closure) Abductive (reasoning) 17:13, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The reliable sources all seem to be stating that 12 protestors were killed by gunfire. Are you arguing that that isn't true, or that it isn't a massacre? ST47 (talk) 00:05, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Also, the word massacre is kind of like genocide... There really is no consensus about how many deaths are required for it to qualify as a massacre. In my opinion, a good yardstick is the Saint Valentine's Day massacre. In that incident, seven people were killed, yet it is universally referred to as a massacre.

O.ominirabluejack (talk) 07:47, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I don't understand the need for this argument. Peaceful and unarmed protesters were shot at, IT WAS A MASSACRE. Donzama (talk) 08:29, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Vote to keep as is: The incident was reported live in various Instagram account and the entire World saw how the emerging soldiers where raining bullets on the protesters. Heavy sounds of gun shots accompanied with screams where heard. This continue for over 1 hour - that is NOT an incident but a deliberate attempt. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Igodomigodo20 (talk • contribs) 14:49, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]


Very unnecessary argument. What happened in lekki on 20/10/2020 was a massacre (the unnecessary, indiscriminate killing of a large number of human beings). As at the last update there were 80+ casualties (dead, hospitalized and missing). Oyaks (talk) 09:37, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

What happened at Lekki, Lagos is definitely a massacre. Taking into cognizance the dictionary definition of what a massacre is and relying on the Clinton Missipi Massacre of September 4 1875 (where immediate death toll included five African American and three white men and Over the next several days, an estimated fifty African Americans were killed), Lekki Massacre should be the title of this page.Armanoid (talk) 12:01, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

of course it is a massacre. I only hope Wikipedia does not play to government agents and allies trying to downplay that brazen show of shame that took place that night in front of thousands of Nigerians. Below is the dictionary.com meaning of a massacre; “noun. the unnecessary, indiscriminate killing of a large number of human beings or animals, as in barbarous warfare or persecution or for revenge or plunder. a general slaughter, as of persons or animals.” so again, I ask was it not a massacre? Oneboygreen (talk) 10:12, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Vote to keep as is: Peaceful protests were shot at. This is a fact. People died as a result. That is a fact too. Ambulances were denied access by the military, which has also been reported in the media. So I'll vote to keep it as 'massacre', which is what it is. Igwatala (talk) 10:31, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

For the fact that soldiers barricaded and shot a set of peaceful protesters in order to shoot, kill and traumatise, the word massacre should be retained. Using a light term like incident is an insult to the lives lost, the number of hearts traumatised. The title is also widely acknowledged already and that's what Wikipedia is about. Opatachibueze (talk) 10:34, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Vote to keep as is What happened in Lekki was horrible and the reports from there describe it as a massacre. I don't understand why we have to be kind in naming things the way they really are. It's far from an incident. Do we want to have hundreds killed to have people approving? The term genocide is different from the term massacre and so I support keeping the articles name Lekki massacre and focus on working more on the content. --Emna (talk) 10:39, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No doubt it was a MASSACRE. We must not allow the true message be watered out. Peaceful Protesters in Lekki were killed. Dwana01 (talk) 11:02, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Why are we even debating this? What happend at Lekki was beyong an incident. A car that brushes another car is an incident, a broken zipper is an incident. But murdering unarmed youth while peaceful protesting against police brutality isn't an incident. I vote to keep the title. Ozark2020 (talk) 11:31, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

For me a propose the title remains as it is . Shooting at armless people directly with what ever intent ( killing) cannot be labeled anything but massacre Chiinobis (talk)

It was a massacre, it was a coordinated shooting of unarmed peaceful protesters by state sanctioned forces that resulted in the death of at least 10 protesters. I think massacre is a light description. Kkbricx (talk) 12:05, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Vote to keep as is. I watched the Instagram Live video when a friend from Nigeria sent me the link. I saw someone die on Instagram. My wife has been in tears since then. It was a massacre. OskarJacobsen (talk) 12:08, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • for now move to Lekki shootings, if more deaths are confirmed move to Lekki massacre, completely against Lekki incidents : Let me start by saying that no one should take my comment personal, I am not insensitive to the feelings of persons affected by acts of brutality, but Wikipedia is what it is and must be free of emotional blackmail and sentiments.
I am against moving to Lekki Incident as that is original research. I agree that the WP:COMMONNAME for this is "Lekki massacre", but was this truly a massacre? According to dictionary sources, massacre is not so much about the number but the absurdness in the nature of the killings. The government placed a curfew after incidents of thuggery. Then protesters engaged in civil disobedience that resulted in the confirmed death of 2 persons after several warnings. After digging deep, I found a source that placed the minimum number of deaths to classify an event as a massacre at 5. Currently, we only have 2 confirmed deaths, my suggestion is that it remains "Lekki shootings" till we have more credible sources that says we had up to 5 deaths. To further buttress that point, the minimum number of deaths in the Wikipedia article on list of massacre puts is 5, which coincides with the source from Colombia. Let us also keep in mind that a number of persons who were previously mentioned as being killed during the shooting have come out to debunk it. Let us not use Wikipedia as a means to unnecessarily heat up the polity.HandsomeBoy (talk) 12:12, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
After a review of newly available sources, position remains unchanged. Lekki shootings remains the most appropriate name. HandsomeBoy (talk) 23:07, 22 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Vote to keep as is What happened in Lekki was egregious. Perhaps the worst incident in Lagos, in modern Nigerian history. The name "Lekki incident" is ambiguous. Hence it doesn't paint the true picture. The truth is it was indeed a massacre. 12 people have been confirmed dead, over 100 injured in hospitals, and multiple more missing (Note that eye witnesses and reported that the Nigerian Army carted away with the bodies of some of the people that were shot. There's also video evidence for this). Using the term incident here is disingenuous, and simply not true. For comparison, the Boston Massacre had 5 deaths and is regarded as a massacre.
According to Sanwo Olu, only two persons are confirmed dead. Let us be patient for more clarity on the death toll. HandsomeBoy (talk) 12:38, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The sentence According to Sanwo Olu, only two persons are confirmed dead should actually be part of the article while the article title is retained. Danidamiobi (talk) 14:17, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No please don't change it. There was massive shooting with intent to kill and no emergency numbers where reachable. Private individuals saved them by calling private Ambulances if not most of the injured would have died. So no, it was a massacre Ebonydamsel (talk) 13:06, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It was an incident, the death toll is currently two and the cause of the death is not as a result of shooting. All the reports of 12 confirmed dead are false. So please let's not be sentimental. A lot of fake news was circulated on that night that people are currently apologizing for. Suluki16 (talk) 13:30, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Vote to keep as is: "The Lekki incident" almost seems like we are romanticizing the fact that the country's military opened fire on unarmed protesters who were waving the country's flag and singing the national anthem.

Also, I believe a decision to rename this page will lend credence to all the work the government is doing right now to cover up this violation of human rights. Nigerians remember October 20th, 2020 as 'The Lekki Massacre', and I think that should be enough credibility. TheCxcx (talk) 14:48, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Vote to keep as-is: From footages viewed on IG Live, unharmed protesters were being shot at by men in arms and that is a massacre Harbimz (talk) 15:29, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The word "incident" is not only ambiguous but it is only a synonym of the word "event". We will be doing a great injustice to what took place on October 20, 2020 if we water that to an incident. Credible sources have confirmed and reported the event as a massacre, it is a massacre. Opelogbon (talk) 15:44, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The Title should remain "Lekki Massacre", the current title describes it well, we will update wiki page with more information in the coming days. Check out my Money Making and Seo blog www (dot) josylad (dot) com (talk) 15:58, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It was a massacre. Multiple deaths have been confirmed already by eye witnesses and medics. It was intentional in the most brutal way. It was planned. Lights from billboards were switched off. Electricity supply was interrupted on request by the executive. Cameras were taken off on request by the executive. Mobile data transmission slow down was reported generally by people in and around the area. It was the site of the most peaceful of protests in the 2 week duration of the protests. The military came to injure, maim and kill. The executive had given clear signals and a propaganda had started. Personally I was not surprised as the Nigerian military had done this on several occasions previously under different administrations.

This attempt to call it an incident is to downplay what actually happened. It shouldn't be allowed.

Massacre should be retained

[edit]

Yes Lebiderkn (talk) 14:10, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Lekki Massacre

[edit]

There is no need to change this title. What happened was not just an incident. A car that brushes another car is an incident, a broken zipper in an incident not when unarmed youths were murdered by the Nigeria Military. Ozark2020 (talk) 11:27, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Exactly Themainmethod (talk) 11:34, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I totally agree to it that it should remain lekki massacre Okwobi (talk) 12:09, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The Lekki Massacre is the right title to decide the incident. MrBob101 (talk) 14:55, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Vote to keep title as it is.

[edit]

The massive shooting of sit-in unarmed peaceful protesters by members of the Nigeria Army was horrible to say the least, eye witnesses say the Military men surrounded the protesters, made bon fire on both sides and shot directly at them. They made no Avenue for escape, they were on a mission to kill armless people. The question still remains who made such order's, the punishment for missing a curfew shouldn't be death??? Should it? A lot of missing person are still yet to be found from that massive shooting. After being shot at there was no Lagos State emergency number reachable, no Ambulances, nothing. One of the protesters went live on Instagram crying for help and the authorities must have been alerted yet nobody sent Ambulances to help the victims to the hospital. A Private body called Feminist Coalition were the once who called private Ambulances to go and save the once shots. If this isn't a massacre, i don't know what it is. The Federal government ordered Military to shoot at Unarmed Protesters, we need justice Ebonydamsel (talk) 13:19, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

💯 Jibreelpro (talk) 13:57, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It was a massacre and that's what it should be called. Lebiderkn (talk) 14:10, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Retain Massacre

[edit]

There is irrefutable video, medical, victim, and eye witness account that members of the Nigerian Military converged at the protest ground and opened fire with automatic assault rifles.

The Army's spokesman denial on Twitter doesn't wish it away.

Cases of missing persons who were either at the protest or were headed to the protest is being recorded daily. They haven't returned to their homes and family. T.FAJANA (talk) 16:19, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

vote to keep it as Lekki Massacre — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.217.23.153 (talk) 09:17, 24 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose move. Keep it at Lekki massacre. That's what reliable secondary sources call it, and with good reason. So in this case our naming policy gives a good result in all ways (doesn't always happen). Andrewa (talk) 06:13, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. I probably would support a move to Lekki shooting, however "incident" completely downplays this event and isn't used by sources much at all. Concerning "shooting" and "massacre", "shooting" appears to be more frequently used over "massacre", but "massacre" has source support as well.--Eostrix  (🦉 hoot hoot🦉) 18:48, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Is this NPOV?

[edit]

Hello, I am relatively new to WP discussions about this, but isn't there a lack of WP:NPOV here? This article looks like a weird mish-mash of people of opposing viewpoints both including their non-neutral viewpoints at different points in the article.

Consider: "These claims of a massacre have not been confirmed by any independent and credible sources and could well be regarded as fake till proven otherwise.", which appears in the very first paragraph. Apparently the editor forgot that Amnesty International is, in fact, and independent and credible source. And there is no need for this sentence, so far as I see.

Next: "This is owing to the fact that no person has been verifiably confirmed dead nor reported dead by their families or friends, as a result of soldiers at protesters at thy Lekki Toll Gate. What is clear and verifiable is that protesters were injured and shootings happened but no deaths recorded." Did the editor forget they weren't on the talk page?

After this, all the rest of the article seems to be strongly pro-protester - which, by the way, even I am in this case - but still includes sentences like "pattern of violent repression by the Nigerian state", which I wouldn't ever use. As I said, I am new to debating about NPOV (which is also why I am not going to edit the article rn), so if this article is indeed NPOV, I would be glad to read the explanation. Thanks, Wilhelm Tell DCCXLVI converse | fings wot i hav dun 12:09, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I haven't even read the article, so can't speak about NPOV. If we arrive at a consensus with the name from the POV "massacre" of the media (who always put it in quote because they know it is not accurate), then I will review the actual content of the article. Trust me, I know how to close my eyes from the lens of the protesters and look away from government content pushing. Wikipedia should not take sides. HandsomeBoy (talk) 12:33, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi all, I believe, this is a neutral point of view. The fact that the opening is sad, doesn't mean it isn't neutral. It was indeed a sad event, so there's no way to sugarcoat it without lying or not painting the true picture.

Regarding the suggested introduction "These claims of a massacre have not been confirmed by any independent...". This suggestion is false, as the incident has indeed been confirmed by multiple credible sources as cited in the references, including CNN, the wall street journal, BBC and more. I believe the truth should be told the way it happened, with nothing added, and nothing removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zindoe (talk • contribs) 02:48, 25 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Edit warring fatalities in infobox

[edit]

Please stop. Call it "12 (disputed)" or find some compromise. I suggest blanking the parameter until agreement can be reached here (or the page gets protected). Pelagic ( messages ) – (23:06 Fri 23, AEST) 13:06, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I support 12 (disputed), or "as many as X (dispute)".--Eostrix  (🦉 hoot hoot🦉) 05:09, 25 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 23 October 2020

[edit]

please change " In addition, Nigerian authorities cut the electricity to the toll gate so that it would be dark and filmed evidence of the shooting would not emerge, the advertisement billboards at the toll gate which are owned and maintained by Loatsad Media were also turned off."

to

" In addition, Nigerian authorities cut the electricity to the toll gate so that it would be dark and filmed evidence of the shooting would not emerge, the advertisement billboards at the toll gate which are owned and maintained by Loatsad Media were also turned off. Loatsad Media is owned by former Senator of Lagos State Bola Tinubu's son Oluseyi Tinubu who argued that `the board was switched off based on the governor's [ Babajide Sanwo-Olu ] curfew request' [1]. " Oosasona (talk) 21:58, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ "Lekki Shooting: Firm owned by Tinubu's son gives reason ad board light was turned off". Premium Times. 21 October 2020.
check Partially implemented Quotation added (full sentence) but cited source does not attribute it directly to Oluseyi Tinubu. NedFausa (talk) 23:01, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Who gave the orders?

[edit]

This has been the question every single Nigeria has been asking, the rhetoric continues. Esspice (talk) 23:25, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It is yet unknown as the Nigerian army on their Twitter handle denied the shooting saying the video was Photoshop, But an investigation panel has been set up CHINEDU CHINYEM (talk) 14:52, 24 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 26 October 2020

[edit]

This is fake news, there is no prove that a massacre occurred and no video evidence of a massacre. This scandalous article is misleading Womyu (talk) 16:29, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done. Your request is not specific; it must be in the form "change X to Y". NedFausa (talk) 16:32, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 14 January 2021

[edit]
The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved (non-admin closure) BegbertBiggs (talk) 23:24, 21 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]


Lekki massacre → 2020 Lekki shooting – First, "2020" needs to be in the title per WP:NCEVENTS. Second, the previous RM suggested a move to "Lekki incident" which pretty much everyone agreed was a bad choice. However, it appears that "shooting" is the preferred term used by reliable sources rather than "massacre". The BBC called it Lekki shooting on November 27, Premium Times called it Lekki shooting on December 12, Vanguard called it Lekki shooting on December 19, Al Jazeera called it Lekki shooting on January 5, Time called it Lekki shooting on December 17, and Sahara Reporters referred to a protestor as a "survivor of the shooting at the peaceful #EndSARS protest held at the Lekki Toll Gate" on December 19.  Bait30  Talk 2 me pls? 18:44, 14 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

2021

[edit]

Btw, how many are still missing as of today/this post? Bokoharamwatch (talk) 21:30, 21 October 2021 (UTC) New report today. Bokoharamwatch (talk) 22:34, 16 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

107 deaths from shootings?

[edit]

Lagos government clarified that the 107 deaths is not from Lekki alone as seen [1] 2. I understand the resentment, but this is a developing story as seen 3 4. As soon as more details arise, the article will be updated. HandsomeBoy (talk) 01:15, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:2020_Lekki_shooting&oldid=1256743967"