Talk:Le Déjeuner en fourrure

A fact from Le Déjeuner en fourrure appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 14 July 2011 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that conversation in a Paris café inspired the Surrealist sculpture Object (Le Déjeuner en fourrure), consisting of a fur-covered teacup, saucer and spoon?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2011/July.

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"Object", title and subtitle

"Object" is not the museum's classification of its type; that is its actual title, and its classification is clearly marked to be sculpture. This is I believe intended as a testament to the exalted role of "the object" in surrealist theory. "Le Déjeuner en fourrure" is the more distinctive and convenient subtitle. (Of course, substituting "Objet" with "Object" is a slight barbarism, but this appears to be common usage in English.)--Pharos (talk) 19:04, 18 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This article itself explains the origin of the title: "She originally titled it prosaically as "Cup, saucer and spoon covered with fur", but the work was renamed by Breton in reference to Manet's painting "Le Déjeuner sur l'herbe", i.e. not "Objet" with a subtitle.

The book this article references, Surrealism, by Cathrin Klingsöhr-Leroy and Uta Grosenick, gives the title of the work as "Fur Breakfast", not "Object".

French Wikipédia says of it in the Méret Oppenheim article: "En 1936, elle réalise, pour l'exposition surréaliste, l'objet « Le Déjeuner en fourrure » : une tasse, sa soucoupe et une petite cuillère recouvertes de fourrure", with the word "objet" outside the quotes because it's the designation, not part of the title.

France was the home of Surrealism, the work was conceived in a French café and realised in France, and all the university references turned up by a search on Google.fr refer to it as "Le Déjeuner en fourrure". The vast majority of references to "Object/Objet: Le Déjeuner en fourrure" are English, i.e. second-hand sources.

Objet/Object is clearly not the title nor even part of it.

Awien (talk) 22:56, 18 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Im a few years late on this,

but I don't get it. Its obvious that the original artist, Oppenheim, clearly had a name that she had given to the piece to be used for the exhibition, yet we still use the renamed version by Breton? I believe this article should be renamed to Object/The Object, and leave the renamed version as a small note.

From Khan Academy:

"When Object was finished, Oppenheim submitted it to Breton for an exhibition of Surrealist objects at the Charles Ratton Gallery in Paris in 1936. However, while Oppenheim preferred a non-descriptive title, Breton took the liberty of titling the piece Le Déjeneur en fourrure, or Luncheon in Fur".

I also believe that the french source that you have given may have lost context through translation. I do not believe that they would have referred to the artpiece as "the object". I believe that they would have likely said "pièce d'art" instead of "le objet". Also, sources that are in a different language than from the origins of the piece still counts as a primary source, just not in the same language. 207.144.70.67 (talk) 13:47, 15 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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