Talk:Lawrence Formation

Split of lower beds of Lawrence Formation to Cass Limestone in Kansas

This discussion was moved from User talk:IveGoneAway#Cass Limestone.

Hi IveGoneAway, I just happened across the discussion on the Help desk. If you would welcome assistance in putting together an article on the Cass Limestone, I would be happy to help. I notice that the parent Douglas Group is barely a stub, so I might try to sort that out first. Mikenorton (talk) 22:49, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Mike. Do you have an interest in or knowledge on the Cass? I have made a small hobby of improving the Fossilworks stubs to at least Geolex stubs as I come accross them as I work on full articles for the units of my interest.

I checked the KGS chart, and it looks like Cass Limestone at least could be a redirect to the Lawrence Shale. Some nice day on a trip to Overland Park, I might mosey down the draw behind Haskel and see if I can find the outcrop for a picture; my guess is that the college lies on the shale.

IDK how much Cass literature there is.

I don't remember; are you familiar with the Lawrence type location?

IveGoneAway (talk) 23:52, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

No particular interest, most of the articles on formations and groups I've worked on are those in the UK where I'm based, but occasionally I stray into other countries, if things catch my eye. I should probably finish what I'm doing on the Chicxulub crater before getting into anything else, although that's nearly done I think.

The Cass is recognised in Nebraska, Kansas and Iowa at least, from what I can find.

Some references -

Heckel & Watney 2002 - Kansas
Iowa DNR 2012
Boardman et al. (2006) Talking specifically about the "Cass cyclothem"
Pennsylvanian stratigraphy of Northern Midcontinent Shelf and biostratigraphic correlation of cyclothems Heckel (2013) - a more general view, suggesting Missouri as well, but can't find anything specific on that as yet. Mikenorton (talk) 11:43, 24 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Turns out that in Missouri it's known as the "Cass Formation" - see here. Mikenorton (talk) 12:54, 24 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This might be fun to write up, at least the Lawrence Formation part. The Lawrence Formation was named by none other than Erasmus Haworth, first State geologist of Kansas. With his office in Lawrence, the shale bed that the whole town of Lawrence is built on (excepting the Sacred Mount Oread) is Formation Zero for the geology of Kansas! The Cass was named somewhat later without confidence of correlation with the Lawrence. In Kansas, Lawrence has precedence, the Douglas Group is named for the county Lawrence is in, and the members of both . Whether there should be one or two articles (Cass v. Lawrence) is up in the air, the classifications might not have consistent structures. See lower right, next to the legend.

Now, I am thinking of the places around Lawrence where I might have seen the Haskell limestone over the decades of driving through.

The Lawrence Formation, also known as Lawrence Shale, is a Carboniferous unit classification in Kansas. The city of Lawrence, Kansas was founded on a broad terrace # feet of elevation above the Kansas River. This terrace is composed largely of thick shale overlying a thin, resistant limestone that slowed the erosion of the terrace.
None other than the first state geologist of Kansas, Erasmus Haworth, based in Lawrence, named the formation for the city. <o>He</o> also named the bottom limestone member Haskell Limestone for the Haskell Institute southeast of town. The formation is a member of the Douglas Group, named for the county in which the city resides.

OK, a shallow skim of the sources you provided suggests a lot of reading to figure out what and how to cover.

In ispum lorem,  Haskell  and other beds were spilt off to form an extension of the Cass Formation into Kansas.

Cyclothems are big mojo. The Carboniferous-Permian cyclothems are Milankovitch cycles.

IveGoneAway (talk) 01:58, 25 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Mikenorton: Would it be appropriate to move this discussion to Lawrence Formation (later make Lawrence Shale a redirect), while also making a Gelolex stub for the Cass? I think this discussion has grown into a discussion for those pages as well as for Cass Formation/Cass Limestone.

IveGoneAway (talk) 13:37, 25 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That would probably be appropriate. It's hard to tell if Phil Heckel's views on the Cass will ever become formally accepted by the Kansas survey, however logical that might seem - geology really shouldn't change at state boundaries. Mikenorton (talk) 20:29, 25 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I am down with the move, and a starter stub for Cass Formation/Cass Limestone. But I have other work this weekend, then another business trip.

The Lawerence is not abdandoned, just split off on faunal basis, and the historical and new classification should be covered. It is hard to say whether the Cass-in-Kansas, is official, but establishing present usage would be part of all of the pages.

It might be simpler if Haskell had its own page, but, whether Haskell gets a page would depend on it's notabilty. Usually, a member or bed gets a page only if it is culturally, scientifically, or industrially significant ( Fencepost limestone, Americus Limestone, X-bentonite ), e.g., if I can learn if the Haskell was used to build the Haskell Basketball Court (first in the World) or is a Hydrocarbon marker in Western Kansas, or not.

IveGoneAway (talk) 17:18, 26 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I created Haskell Limestone. Have to move this discussion later.

IveGoneAway (talk) 16:23, 3 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I moved and updated Lawrence Shale to Lawrence Formation.

IveGoneAway (talk) 04:26, 4 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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