Talk:Lake Patzcuaro salamander

These were still sold in the markets as recently as the 1970s.

I remember seeing these for sale in the markets of Patzcuaro. Vendors ran maguey spine/string through the tails to keep them from flopping off the tables. 209.184.113.77 (talk) 19:53, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Lake Patzcuaro salamander/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Grungaloo (talk · contribs) 01:49, 15 December 2023 (UTC)

Hi Etriusus, I'm going to take this GAN review on. I'll try to have a complete review for you in the next few days. Feel free to ping me with questions! grungaloo (talk) 01:49, 15 December 2023 (UTC)

@Grungaloo Thanks for the review!! :D 🏵️Etrius ( Us) 02:22, 15 December 2023 (UTC)

Hi again Etriusus - I'm finished my review! I see you've already started to work through some comments, but if you run into anything you disagree with or don't understand please let me know! I think this is well on its way to be GA, and it's mostly minor corrections to get it there. grungaloo (talk) 21:51, 15 December 2023 (UTC)

@Grungaloo, that should be everything. Thanks again!! 🏵️Etrius ( Us) 23:10, 15 December 2023 (UTC)

Thanks! Everything looks great, I'm happy to promote this. Thanks for all the work you put into this and congratulations! Also, FWIW I think the Falcor quote would make a good DYK nomination. grungaloo (talk) 00:40, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

1. Is it well written?

   A. The prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct:

   See comments below Issues addressed

   B. It complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation:

   See comments below Issues addressed

2. Is it verifiable with no original research?

   A. It contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline:

   References listed.

   B. Reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose):

   Good sources, appropriately cited.

   C. It contains no original research:

   Everything is properly cited, no obvious OR.

   D. It contains no copyright violations nor plagiarism:

   Not plagiarized from sources, nothing found when run through detector.

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. It addresses the main aspects of the topic:

   Good coverage. Good coverage of both the salamander and it's social/historical context. A few minor expansions could be added, see comments.

   B. It stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style):

   Perfect amount of detail.

4. Is it neutral?

   It represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each:

   Meets NPOV

5. Is it stable?

   It does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute:

   No recent reverts, no sign of edit warring.

6. Is it illustrated, if possible, by images?

   A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content:

   Images all have correct license/attribution

   B. Images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:

   Good use of limited images available from Wikicommons. Could add some of their habitat.

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

   Minor issues to resolve, see comments. Issues resolved, passed!

General Comments

• Achoque vs Ambystoma dumerilii - Both names are used throughout the article, generally I suggest sticking to one throughout. There are some cases in this where it works well though, namely where you're also talking about axolotls. I'm open to having both left in - thoughts?

 Done, I did some tidying up.

• MOS:HEAD - Section headings should use sentence case.

 Done, except in the conservation section, these are proper nouns

• Suggest adding a map showing the location of Lake Patzcuaro. This could either go in the info box of Distribution section. Could also add a picture of the lake itself in the distribution section. Wikicommons seems to have some already [1]

 Done

Lead

• Taxobox, (Emmett Reid Dunn , 1939) - remove the space before the comma.

 Done

• "First described in 1870 by Alfredo Dugès, the species is named in honor of the French herpetologist Auguste Duméril; however, the salamander has been used as a food source and an ingredient in traditional medicines by the Purépecha people since Pre-Columbian times." - I think this semicolon doesn't quite work. Because of the clause about Auguste Dumeril, it makes the part after the semicolon seem disconnected. The intent is good, but I'd either split to a separate sentence or try a rewrite.

 Done, split sentences

• "This, along with achoque's similarities to the tiger salamander, had led to the species being classified as a member of the larger Ambystoma tigrinum species group. " - has led to the species being classified...

 Done, split sentences

• "It is estimated that there are less than 100 individuals left in the wild, and the species may go extinct in the wild within the next 20 to 30 years." - and that the species may go extinct...

 Done, split sentences

• "Currently, there are 4 in-situ colonies in Mexico and additional colonies maintained abroad." - MOS:FOREIGN I don't think in-situ needs to be italicized since it's common in English. Also, later in article it's no italicized.

 Done, split sentences

Taxonomy and Evolution

• "The species were first described in 1870 by Alfredo Dugès, who described the species as Siredon dumerilii." - The species was first described...

 Done, split sentences

• "The vernacular name achoque is derived from the Purépecha word 'achójki'. The term is synonymous with the Purépecha word 'axolotl', or the Spanish 'Ajolote'; which is broadly applied to all aquatic forms of branchiate salamanders.[5] The precise meaning of 'achójki' is not known, but it might mean 'mud'." - MOS:FOREIGN I think all terms in quotation marks should be italicized, and they should be double quotes ("). Also, the semicolon after "Spanish Ajolote" should be a comma.

 Done, split sentences

• "Ambystoma dumerilii evolved approximately 10 to 12 million years ago during the Neogene Era. " - Era should be lower case.

 Done, split sentences

• "The Ambystoma genus diverged following the uplifting of the Neovolcanic Axis where the Mexican plateau split from the Sierra Madre, isolating the ancestral species." - "Neovolcanic Axis" links to Trans-Mexican Volcanic Belt, and I can't find the term "Neovolcanic Axis" in that article. Should this be updated to use the article title instead? Also, Mexican Plateau - the P should be capitalized.

 Done So, 'Trans-Mexican Volcanic Belt' and 'Neovolcanic Axis' are synonymous, but I clarified anyway

• "During that same time, the Lerma River's drainage system was disrupted by volcanic activity, separating Lake Patzcuaro and Lake Texcoco, separating the ancestral species of achoques and axolotls into their respective environments." - Repeated use of "separating" sounds a bit odd. Could this be reworded?

 Done

Description

• "The toes, rostrum of the head, cloaca, and underside of the tail tend to have a darker coloring compared to their body." - "Their toes, rostrum of the head... compared to their body". The articles should match for a better flow, so alternatively you can change "compared to the body".

 Done

• "Their dorsum color has been described by Chester Zoo curator Gerardo Garcia as " the color of Dijon mustard" and the salamanders "resemble miniature versions of the flying dragon-dog Falkor in The Neverending Story"." - Remove extra space before "the color of Dijon mustard". Also, this is a really cute quote :)

 Done, I like to add a fun factoid in these GAs, makes the work so much more enjoyable.

• "Their head and mouth are flat and wide, and a caudal fin runs from the third gill arch to the end of the tail." - Starting a paragraph with "Their" sounds odd , try naming the species again for clarity.

 Done

• "Their bodies are widest along of thorax and begin to taper following the hind legs into the tail." - "are widest along the thorax"

 Done

• "The legs are short, stocky, and their webbed toes end with 4 digits." - "The legs are short and stocky, and their webbed toes..." Otherwise the description of the legs and toes run together.

 Done

• "Achoques are the only member of their genus to retain webbed feet on all 4 limbs into adulthood." - "4", change to "four"

 Done

• "Achoques are also compared to the axolotl and Taylor's salamander due to their shared geographical location, taxonomic ranking, and morphological features." - Compared in what sense?

 Done, made the sentence a bit more clear

Life Cycle

• "They lack ectodermal projections (balancers), gill fimbriae, are a brown color, and have developing front limbs." - Suggest rewriting a bit to group things better. "They lack ectodermal projections and gill fimbriae, are a brown colour, and have developing from limbs".

 Done

• "Sexual maturity is achieved around 18 to 24 months of age, though some specimen can achieve this as early as 8 to 12 months." - Consider changing "achieved" for "reached"

 Done

• "This species is neotenic (also known as paedomorphism), meaning that they retain larval stage characteristics, namely their external, heavily vascularized gills, rather than losing them in adulthood." - There's a lot of parenthetical clauses in this sentence. It makes sense as is so feel free to keep it, but it might be more easily understood if it's split up. Consider splitting out what larval characteristics they keep.

 Done

• "While many of Ambystoma salamanders are capable of performing facilitative neoteny depending on environmental conditions, Ambystoma dumerilii is only one of five Ambystoma salamanders that are found in a permanent, natural state of paedomorphism. - Drop the "of" before the first "Abystoma". Also, what is "facilitative neoteny"? It's not clear from this what it means, and the article on Neoteny doesn't explain it either.

 Done

• In the metamorphosis section, consider quickly explaining what metamorphosis means for salamanders in particular. People may generally be aware of metamorphosis for things like butterflies, but salamanders less so. You could also link to Salamander#Reproduction and development.

 Done, I linked the better article. Its a bit outside the scope of a species page to explain such a broad topic.

• "Unlike normal amphibians post transformation, the skin does not have Leydig nor mucosal cells." - post-transformation

 Done

• " Hybrids between A. dumerilii and its relatives, often A. mexicanum (the axolotl) and A. tigrinum (the Tiger Salamander)" - Tiger salamander shouldn't be capitalized.

 Done

Behavior and ecology

• "When startled or attempting to swim, the salamanders pull their limbs to their body and dive down the water column." - Is water column the right term? It's an oceanographic term typically (at least that I know of) so not sure it applies here.

 Done, cut

• "Due to the lack of native, predatory fish in Lake Pátzcuaro, Ambystoma dumerilii was likely an apex predator prior to the introduction of invasive species." - drop the comma between "native" and "predatory"

 Done

• "They may have been predated on by herons and the snake thamnophis eques patzcuarensis, but this has never been observed." - They may be predated on? Despite low numbers, presumably predation still occurs.

Might be is most accurate here. There has never been any observed predation, mainly because there are so few of the species left. The claim is largely based upon inference.

• "They can often be seen standing on their forelegs, and sweeping their snouts through substrate to find prey." - Drop the comma here

 Done

• "In captivity, Ambystoma dumerilii are generalist carnivores in who commonly eat aquatic invertebrates, small fish, and eggs." - Drop "in", probably a leftover from a previous edit?

 Done

• "and both artificial insemination and inter-species courtship under laboratory conditions has resulted in viable hybrid off-spring between these species." - change off-spring to offspring.

 Done

• "Ambystoma mexicanum, and Ambystoma dumerilii, in particular, demonstrate no behavioral nor genetic barriers to reproduction in captivity." - There's an extra comma here somewhere. I think you mean "A mexicanum, and A dumerilii in particular, demonstrate no behavioral..."?

 Done

Distribution and threats

• "Ambystoma dumerilii is microendemic[16] to Lake Pátzcuaro, a high-altitude lake (1,920 metres (6,300 ft) in elevation[9]) in the Mexican state of Michoacán." - WP:CITEFOOT, references [fn 16] and [fn 9] should come after punctuation or at the end of the sentence.

 Done

• "This species is listed as Critically endangered in the IUCN red list," - "Critically" should not be capitalized

 Done

• "Due to habitat destruction, and pollution resultant of the rising human population of Pátzcuaro, a city located on Lake Pátzcuaro, the achoque population has decreased severely in the past decades." - Can drop the comma between "destruction" and "and pollution"

 Done

• " This medicine, often called 'Achoque soup', has been claimed to cure respiratory illnesses, cure anemia, give energy to children, and were often given to lactating women." - and was often given to lactating women

 Done

• "In 2004, fishermen reported that due to over-fishing, they were only able to catch small specimen." - Change over-fishing to overfishing

 Done

Conservation efforts

• "Sisters" vs "sisters" - Both are used when talkinga bout the Basilica, since it's a title I think "Sisters" capitalized is the appropriate use. Could you make sure they all match that?

 Done

• "The sisters have harvested Ambystoma dumerilii for use in traditional medicine for 150 years, using the salamader's skin in the production of jarabe, a cough syrup." - MOS:FOREIGN, should jarabe be italicized? Jarabe is in a later sentence too.

 Done

• " Originally, the Sisters made syrup from specimen in Lake Pátzcuaro, " - Specimen sounds a bit odd here because it could be read as being singular. Maybe use achoque instead?

 Done

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Bruxton talk 20:11, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

• ... that the Lake Patzcuaro salamander's native habitat it limited to a single lake in Mexico? Source: https://www.eaza.net/assets/Uploads/CCC/BPG-2021/2021-Lake-Patzcuaro-salamander-EAZA-Best-Practice-Guidelines-Approved.pdf
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Luisa Lallana

Improved to Good Article status by Etriusus (talk). Self-nominated at 01:49, 16 December 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Lake Patzcuaro salamander; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

• Article achieved Good Article status on 16 December. No issues of copyvio or plagiarism. All sources appear reliable. QPQ is done. Hook is interesting and sourced. Looks ready to go! Thriley (talk) 05:57, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

I found the hook in the article: first sentence in the Distribution and threats sectiomn. Ambystoma dumerilii is microendemic to Lake Pátzcuaro, a high-altitude lake (1,920 m (6,300 ft) in elevation) in the Mexican state of Michoacán Bruxton (talk) 20:10, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

Change name to Achoque

Since this animal has an actual name like the Axolotl, can we change it's name to that? RenaMoonn (talk) 16:49, 3 September 2024 (UTC)