Talk:Legion of Honour

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A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on May 19, 2005, May 19, 2006, May 19, 2007, May 19, 2008, May 19, 2009, and May 19, 2010.

On 8 August 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved to Legion of Honor. The result of the discussion was not moved.

Requested move 8 August 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) – Material Works 22:02, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Legion of Honour → Legion of Honor – Was the original name of the page before the move to Légion d'honneur. When it was changed back, a u was added to honor with the rational that that is the spelling the legion uses in English. However, the legion website exclusively uses the honor spelling https://www.legiondhonneur.fr/en/search/node/honor . In keeping with this and Wikipedia policy, the article should be moved back to its originial location. 128.135.204.219 (talk) 19:50, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose the page history shows that the page started at 'Légion d'honneur', moved to 'Legion of Honor' in April 2006‎, back to 'Légion d'honneur' in June 2006, and moved to the present 'Legion of Honour' in October 2010, so MOS:RETAIN as this has been the stable title for 13-ish years, and the article itself used 'honour' when it was first created. Looking at the discussion at Talk:Legion of Honour#Page move II their website did use 'Honour' until around 2013/14/15 as seen here, after that switching to 'honor'. -- AxG / ✉ 21:22, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per MOS:RETAIN. The page was originally created as "The French Légion d’honneur (Legion of honour)" so this is the original spelling that was used in this article. Rreagan007 (talk) 02:19, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support per WP:COMMONNAME. All the arguments above have looked at the history of the page or the official website, but none have opted to look at independent sources. Ngrams demonstrate that "Legion of Honor" has been more common since around 1886, only just recently narrowing. [1] estar8806 (talk) ★ 16:38, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - I've put a couple more formats into ngrams and returned these results:

- "Legion of Honour of France" is slightly more common than "Legion of Honor of France" [2]

- "Legion of Honor" is more common than "Legion of Honour" [3]

- "Legion of Honor + France" and "Legion of Honour + France" are statistically even [4].

So 2 formats support "Legion of Honor", 1 supports "Legion of Honour" and 1 is tied between the two. WP:COMMONNAME is easy here. estar8806 (talk) ★ 16:43, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - "Brexit means ... Euro-English?".[5] "And the variety that underpins the [European] Commission's English style guide is clear. It's not Euro-English, it's not American English, it's 'standard usage of Britain and Ireland' — referred to as 'British usage' or 'British English' in the guide 'for the sake of convenience.'" [6]. "Honour" is predominantly used in British English. In the source France's Europe Minister Clément Beaune spoke about a "broken English", that's probably why there are constant changes between "honor" and "honour". Oroborvs (talk) 11:38, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I'm an American and solely use American English in my daily life. However, it's been the article's name for over a decade and because of MOS:RETAIN it should stay;"When an English variety's consistent usage has been established in an article, maintain it in the absence of consensus to the contrary. With few exceptions (e.g., when a topic has strong national ties or the change reduces ambiguity), there is no valid reason for changing from one acceptable option to another." The legion *does* have strong national ties... to France, where they don't care if we're using the honour or honor variation; there's no pressing reason why it should change given the high burden of MOS:RETAIN. R. J. Dockery (talk) 21:15, 14 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I do not see a valid reason for change. Anthony Staunton (talk) 09:03, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. I agree this is a matter for MOS:RETAIN, not WP:COMMONNAME. Honour/honor is just being used here as the word. A couple reasons for "Legion of Honor" being more common without specifying France may include that there is an art museum in San Francisco called the Legion of Honor (museum) and a former American Legion of Honor. SilverLocust 💬 21:49, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Inconsistency

The 3 "List of" pages in the See also sectionhave the spelling Légion d'honneur. Either they should be changed or this article's title should be changed. Mcljlm (talk) 02:19, 6 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]