Talk:L'Ange noir

Requested move 9 December 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: page moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) —Nnadigoodluck███ 12:29, 23 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

L'ange noir → L'Ange noir – In conjunction with the currently-active Talk:L'ange de Nisida#Requested move 8 December 2020, the current form of this title in English Wikipedia — L'ange noir — likewise misunderstands French orthography — the corresponding entry in French Wikipedia uses the main title header L'Ange noir. I would also support, if consensus were to coalesce around the film's English title, the move L'ange noir → The Black Angel (1994 film), per its entry at Turner Classic Movies (TCM) or per its entry at UniFrance, the promotion and distribution organization for French cinema. — Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 05:14, 9 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom.--Ortizesp (talk) 15:12, 9 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
~~Oppose~~ WP:FRMOS neither of these are proper nouns. In ictu oculi (talk) 21:47, 9 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

We cannot dictate French orthography to the French — WP:FRMOS#Capitalization instructs [under "Examples:"]

The words capitalized in titles of works of art (books, paintings, etc.) are:

proper nouns (names, cities)
the initial word of the title and:
- if this initial word is a definite article (le, la, les, l'), both the article and its noun and any adjectives or adverbs preceding the noun are capitalized (e.g. Le Grand Meaulnes; La Grande Illusion)
- if the initial word is an adjective followed by a noun, both are capitalized (e.g. Tristes Tropiques)

However:

if the title is a sentence, only the first letter and proper nouns are capitalized (e.g. La vie est un long fleuve tranquille)
if the title contains an enumeration (e.g. La Belle et la Bête), subsequent nouns are capitalized
in cases of a double title (e.g. Émile ou De l'éducation), both parts of the title are treated individually by the above rules

Examples:

La Peau de chagrin (not "La peau de chagrin" or "La Peau de Chagrin")
L'Œuvre
Le Ventre de Paris
Les Misérables

Thus, if we decide not to adopt the English title — The Black Angel — but to retain the French title, it should be "L'Ange..." (not "L'ange..."). —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 00:49, 10 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It's the Académie Française "dictating French orthography to the French", here we use WP:FRMOS, it's entirely we who decide what readers see. Reluctantly struck, if that's how film editors feel. But not appropriate to operas. In ictu oculi (talk) 10:45, 10 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Since no one disputes the fact that operas are indeed works of art and that our own WP:FRMOS#Capitalization does specify the above-listed examples for such works, it would seem counterintuitive to continue grandfathering outdated orthography that is applicable solely to works from past centuries. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 16:03, 10 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.