Talk:Kumeko Urabe/Archive 1

This is an archive of past discussions about Kumeko Urabe. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Kumeko Urabe/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: ErnestKrause (talk · contribs) 18:57, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

I've already made a print-out of this article and read it through with my notes on it. I should be able to type in my review notes over the next day or two. ErnestKrause (talk) 18:57, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

Initiating review

(1) Lead section: "She worked on the stage and on television as well as film", to "She worked on stage and television as well as film."

Done. simongraham (talk) 16:47, 21 December 2021 (UTC)

(2) Lead section: "...but moved as her father, a priest, moved temples", to "but had multiple homes while growing up as she needed to relocate with her father who was a Buddhist priest between the different temples to which he was assigned," or something like this.

Done. simongraham (talk) 16:47, 21 December 2021 (UTC)

(3) Lead section: "In 1923, she auditioned...". Start a second paragraph in the end section for her film career and add in her name as "In 1923, Urabe auditioned...".

Done. simongraham (talk) 16:47, 21 December 2021 (UTC)

(4) Early life: Her medal is mentioned here though she won it very late in her life, which is mentioned below in the article. Give the citation being used here and the year of the award should be stated. Recommend that you might use a phrase like "Retrospective, when she received the Medal of Honor years later...".

Done. simongraham (talk) 16:47, 21 December 2021 (UTC)

(5) Movie career: This section could use a little bit more. The film Ikiru is also a must to add in this section with a brief description of her role in the film and if she received any awards for her acting in it. A separate paragraph on the Mizoguchi films she made would add a lot to this section, were there three or films with him? The Criterion Collection [1], I think, distinguished these films with a special box set, and it would be nice to again give a brief description of her role in each of her Mizoguchi films. Doing this would draw more attention from readers and you could also link this page from the Mizoguchi biography page as an added benefit to readers of this article.

Done. simongraham (talk) 16:47, 21 December 2021 (UTC)

Also, what was considered her top film or the role-of-a-lifetime for her? Did she have a stand-out film hit which reminds film viewers in Japan of her as an actress to this day? I think readers of this article would like to hear of such a film if there is one which is a stand-out.

I could not find one. She generally seems to have played minor roles. simongraham (talk) 16:47, 21 December 2021 (UTC)

(6) TV career: There is a "Death and legacy" part of this section which ought to be separated out into a separate section. There is only mention of her Medal of Honour here, though it seems she must have had numerous Awards and Prizes during her lifetime which are otherwise not covered in this article at all. An Awards section would be a very welcome new section for this biography article.

I have separated her private life to include her marriage and death. Although the source states she won other things, I have not found reference to them so I have amended it to accolades rather than awards. simongraham (talk) 16:47, 21 December 2021 (UTC)

(7) Filmography: Even though this is a partial list, the list needs to include Ikiru, and each one of the Mizoguchi films. You might want to give some thought to also adding selectively the director's name to the more famous films in this list. She worked with some of Japan's most outstanding directors.

I have expanded the list. Reference to the directors she worked with is in the narrative. simongraham (talk) 16:47, 21 December 2021 (UTC)

@Simongraham: It may also be worthwhile checking on Interwiki for the Japanese version of this article which has an enhanced version of the list of her films which it also highlights for the Mizoguchi films among them which is useful, along with an enhanced TOC with lots of references not in the English version. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:57, 18 December 2021 (UTC)

I have looked at the Japanese version and there are a lot of unverified facts, including the list of films is useful. However, it is a useful starting point. simongraham (talk) 16:47, 21 December 2021 (UTC)

@ErnestKrause: Thank you for your rigorous review. Please take a look at the changes I have made and see if there is anything else to meet the GA criteria. I look forward to your comments. simongraham (talk) 16:47, 21 December 2021 (UTC)

Section break

Repeat that father was a priest in the Early life section, same as in lead section.

The fact that he is a Rinzai priest is already mentioned.

Awards / Award History

1952: Daiei Award "Lightning Bolt"

1966: Medal with Purple Ribbon

1977: 1st Fumiko Yamaji Film Award Film Achievement Award

1984: Yumo Grand Prize

I saw these claims on the Japanese wikipedia site. However, the use of wikipedia as a source violates WP:CIRC. simongraham (talk) 04:31, 25 December 2021 (UTC)

Her films with Mizoguchi (important for Japanese film studies) include about a dozen silent films and about a half dozen sound films. I am suggesting that at least the ones identified in this list below be added to the English biography article here at GAN, along with the 'hollow star' added for the Mizoguchi films in the list. He is a cultural icon in Japanese film studies in Japan. ErnestKrause (talk) 00:56, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

Films:

☆ mark denotes directed by Kenji Mizoguchi (include this line at the top of the English version of the article for the 'hollow star' code)

☆ Dust boundary (1924, Nikkatsu) --Omatsu

☆ Ax that cuts off love (1924, Nikkatsu) --Young wife Pearlko, Senami Chinami

☆ Queen of the Circus (1924, Nikkatsu) --Spanish character

☆ Special mission ship Kanto (1925, Nikkatsu) --Daughter of the village

☆ No money war (1925, Nikkatsu) --Tsubame Musume

☆ Human front and back (1925, Nikkatsu) --Yukie

☆ General Nogi and Mr. Kuma (1925, Nikkatsu) --Kuma's wife, Yu

☆ Tojin Okichi (1930, Nikkatsu) --Omatsu

☆ Moreover, they go (1931, Nikkatsu) --Atsuko's mother

☆ The Water Magician (1933, Pro Irie) --Ogin

☆ Gion Matsuri (1933, Shinko Kinema) ---

☆ The Straits of Love (1937, Shinko Kinema) --Midwife Murai Ume

☆ Ah hometown (1938, Shinko Kinema) --Shinkichi's second wife

Unfortunately the Japanese site has no reliable references in the film list. I have included a referenced list of films instead as this meets WP:VER and WP:NOR, and a selection of her work with different directors to meet WP:NPOV and WP:OOS. There are links to Mizoguchi and other directors with whom she worked in the narrative. simongraham (talk) 04:31, 25 December 2021 (UTC)

The films and tv sections would I think look better in "div col 2".

Done

See if any of this can be brought into the article during the holidays or for the holidays. ErnestKrause (talk) 00:56, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

@ErnestKrause: Please take a look at the amendments. I have not included some of the material you have requested as it would violate the core content policies to add without verified sources. Do you have sources that I can use please? simongraham (talk) 04:31, 25 December 2021 (UTC)

The reliable source for the Mizoguchi films and titles in English is at [Jacoby, Alex: "Kenji Mizoguchi". Senses of Cinema, Great Directors: A Critical Database]. There are 3 films after 1937 she did with Mizoguchi which should also be added here in the list of films using the hollow star notation, now with a reliable source. ErnestKrause (talk) 00:30, 28 December 2021 (UTC)

Thank you. This source does not identify those which starred Urabe, but is rather a list of films by Kenji Mizoguchi; this would be relevant to the article on him but WP:OOS for this article. simongraham (talk) 04:52, 28 December 2021 (UTC)

Almost there. The three missing Urabe films with Mizoguchi are (1) Woman of the Night (1948), (2) Portrait of Madame Yuki (1950), and (3) Street of Shame (1956, his last film). The last two just listed also have Wikipedia English articles for these films. Now with this complete list of Urabe-Mizoguchi films, you can take the first one and match it up with the film entry in the filmography of the Wikipedia Mizoguchi article which gives the official Japanese name transliterated into English characters. You can copy that transliterated Japanese name into a Google search engine which will provide a list of the English language articles online which discuss that Mizoguchi film along with Urabe's participation in most all cases. (One or two of these films are permanently lost to posterity). Once you get the reliable source website for the Mizoguchi films with Urabe in this way and add them into the filmography for his films with Urabe, then I think the article will check all the boxes. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:51, 28 December 2021 (UTC)

That is helpful. These films are all there with references. simongraham (talk) 10:09, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

Closing Review Comments: Article is well written on a subject which is of much interest to Mizoguchi followers in film theory. Optionally, the "hollow star" format mentioned in the review above can be used to highlight the Mizoguchi films in the filmography here which Urabe did with him at your discretion. This is currently done on interwiki for the Japan version of her biography with good success. Also, double checking the "backlinks" to this article from the linked articles and films might help with the low daily page count for this biography article which might be helpful. For example, in Ikiru she plays the sister-in-law of the main character and it would nice to check if her name is linked from there to this biography article. Article is promoted. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:32, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by SL93 (talk) 05:26, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

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Comment or view
Article history

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Kumeko Urabe in 1925

... that as well as having a film career that stretched over 60 years, in 1984 Kumeko Urabe became the oldest debut singer with her single Octopus Song? Source: "News". Classic Movie News. 28: 14. 1984.

Improved to Good Article status by Simongraham (talk). Self-nominated at 10:05, 9 January 2022 (UTC).

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

QPQ: None required.

Overall: This fascinating article about a Japanese film star is a joy to read. I understand that you have 4 DYKs, which means you are exempt from doing a QPQ.

@Simongraham: I have given this nomination a query status so that it is not promoted until I can maybe persuade you to offer the article's beautiful image for use at DYK, The image is free, and is clear when used as a thumbnail. The second version is a cropped version of the first, which is permissible at DYK (so you do not have to add the second version to the article if it is used at DYK). Storye book (talk) 20:34, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

@Storye book: That is a very gracious thing to say. I am extremely happy to add an image to the nomination. I feel that the cropped version is more appropriate so am very pleased to hear that is acceptable without having to add it to the article. simongraham (talk) 04:44, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

@Simongraham: Thank you. I have removed the spare copies of the image from this template to prevent confusion. I look forward to seeing the picture on DYK. Storye book (talk) 09:36, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
- Storye book, what is left to do for this nomination to be approved? You have yet to give it the approval tick (status is still "?" in the "DYK checklist" template), so presumably there's more to be done. Thanks for clearing this up. BlueMoonset (talk) 17:13, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Good to go, with a plea to the promoter to please use the image if at all possible, because it is so beautiful; also it helps to support the Women in Red effort. Thank you. Storye book (talk) 17:17, 17 January 2022 (UTC)