Talk:Kosovo curse

Mistranslation

Changed the wording to be more accurate. The poem is a call to conscription during the Battle of Kosovo, basically saying that any Serb who will not fight in the Battle of Kosovo against the Ottomans and protect his people is a coward and doesn't deserve to be Serb.

Referring to this line in Serbian: а не дошо на бој на Косово

I changed this English translation: And comes not to fight at Kosovo

Into this far more accurate trans: And comes not to the Battle of Kosovo,

Which is a mistranslation because "бој на Косово" refers only to the Battle of Kosovo, previous translation implied that "all Serbs that come to Kosovo (even today) should fight" when the meaning was that "all Serbs should come to fight at the Battle of Kosovo." 99.236.221.124 (talk) 00:59, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

I think this is wrong. Capitalized Battle of Kosovo refers to a historical event which was yet to happen at the time Prince Lazar did his cursing. The previous version was more correct because he calls all Serbs of his time to fight at Kosovo, not all Serbs of all times to a battle he could not have known for sure would take place. If you care about the modern interpretation in the context of Serbian nationalism and widespread anti-Serb sentiment, it is best to provide a note about it and leave the translation as accurate as possible.

The last line is very loosely related to the original, probably because it uses words that have different meanings now and in times when the curse was written (regardless of whether it was really done by Prince Lazar or made up later). "rđa" means rust in modern Serbian, but archaically it means evil, filth, corruption, badness. "kapo" may seem to be a form of the verb "kapljati" which translates as "to drip", but it is more likely to be a form of an archaic verb which translates as "to die" and can still be heard today in its finite form "skapati" or the noun "kap". With this in mind, the accurate translation of the last line would be: And may he be dying in filth as long as his children are alive.

Now, line 4 seems to exclude the subject of the curse having any children, but it is another mistranslation. "od srca" is not what heart desires. "od srca" means "from love".

178.148.8.77 (talk) 18:12, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

19th century?

This curse is not part of the 19th century poem. There are sources about this curse published much earlier in 1778 in song Историја Мусића Стефана recorded by Avram Miletić ("У песми коју је забележио Аврам Милетић кнез Лазар је проклињао: „Ког ујутро на Косову не буде, не родило му ни жито ни" In song recorded by Avram Miletić... Lazar of Serbia cursed.... ).

Therefore I will remove text which refers to 19th century.

--Antidiskriminator (talk) 01:05, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Independent sources say that Karadžić was involved in nationalist mythmaking; so a claim of antiquity in the collected works of Karadžić is hardly a good reason to pretend that it's a real legend. When did Miletic write his epic poems - 1389, or much later?

Also: The text of the "curse" given in the article is from Karadžić's writings, so it's more grammatically appropriate to say "This form of the curse..." rather than "One form of the curse...", no? bobrayner (talk) 14:03, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

This is article about the curse. Curse whose author was Lazar in 1389. Here is a link to the text which explains that Constantine of Kostenets wrote how Lazar issued "invitation and threat" to Serbian states (or of Serbian state, I am not sure) which was preserved in the Serbian epic poetry in the form of the curse. One version of the curse has been recorded by Miletić in 1778. That was not something Miletić authored because he only recorded the text of already popular epic song which other 18th century people like Dositej Obradović [1] compared with the beauty of Homer's texts.

The Karadžić's 1845 form of the curse is only one of many forms of the curse. --Antidiskriminator (talk) 22:08, 7 January 2012 (UTC)