Talk:Koreatown, Queens

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Climate section?

I think it is misleading to have a climate section, when nothing in it is any different from the climate of Queens, nor even: all of NYC.--JimWae (talk) 01:28, 21 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Relevance to Nassau & Queens

It seems that it would make sense to have links to this article from the Queens article, but absent any demonstration of more than small relevance to Nassau County, it likely should not be a topic in the Nassau County article.--JimWae (talk) 01:31, 21 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Alright. Testing mobile interface. Herostratus (talk) 19:53, 27 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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Name?

I'm trying to figure out what the name if this entity is. What do people say or write when referring to when they want specify beyond just Koreatown? "Koreatown, Long Island" or "Long Island Koreatown" or "Koreatown, Queens", or what?

It's not written about a lot. Google Ngrams has never heard of it. Google Trends doesn't do phrases, only words, I guess. Regular google returns very few hits -- 1,120 fr ""long island koreatown", 1,380 for "koreatown long island", 1,760 for "koreatown queens", These are low numbers and absolutely useless. In google books, ""koreatown in queens" returns two results, other strings none. Also useless.

So, sources? Let's see... here is an article titled "Koreatown Manhattan, or Koreatown Flushing?" in Chowhound (whatever that is). This] New York Times article talks about the neighborhood, but doesn't name it. This City University article uses "the Korean community in Flushing"...

The article Flushing says "There is a Koreatown which originated in Flushing, but has since spread eastward to Murray Hill, Bayside, Douglaston, and Little Neck in Queens, and also into Nassau County". Since it's expanded outside of the boundaries of Queens then "Long Island Koreatown" might make sense. However, "might make sense" isn't how we roll, we go with sources. It's a data point tho.

It looks like the term "Flushing" is associated with this Koreatown more than any other single term, that I can find. But there isn't a lot of guidance. Willing to be corrected, but it seems like with little guidance we should default to the title form use for Queens neighborhoods, which is "XXXX, Queens" and thus I moved the article. Herostratus (talk) 12:54, 26 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Herostratus, this is an interesting situation, because this Koreatown is mostly, but not wholly, in Queens. It originated from Murray Hill and downtown Flushing, but gradually developed eastward along Northern Boulevard. There are Korean businesses in Bayside, Douglaston, Little Neck, and even in Nassau County outside NYC. In my experience (which is original research and should not be used as the basis for determining an article title), the area with the greatest concentrations of Korean businesses is still the Flushing and Murray Hill area.

Further complicating the issue, Koreatown isn't per se a proper neighborhood, but rather, an ethnic enclave that grew around Northern Boulevard. There are plenty of Korean residents and businesses in places like Bayside off Northern Boulevard, but it isn't as dense as the concentration of Korean businesses that originally grew around Northern Boulevard. Epicgenius (talk) 14:28, 26 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The article needs work on editing and sourcing, but the area it covers is described in the lead as including "the northeastern portion of Queens, a borough of New York City, as well as part of the Gold Coast of Nassau County, outside the New York City limits. Given the content of the article, the use of "Long Island" as a disambiguator seems to be more appropriate than "Queens". Alansohn (talk) 14:44, 26 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I see what you're saying. I'm not sure if the passage above is ref'd, but we tend strongly to go with what sources do (not necessarily, but tend strongly), if there are enough sources to make a trend. If there are four sources saying specifically "Koreatown, Queens" or "...Koreatown in Queens...", and only one source saying "Koreatown, Long Island" or "...the Long Island Koreatown...", I suppose we'd go with Queens, and vice versa. "Flushing" may be in play also.

The thing is, I haven't found one single source that can be used to help us figure out what people say. And we'd need several. That being the case, we're kind of thrown back on our own resources, which are: 1) best serve serve the most readers (have to guess), and 2) WP:AT is an actual policy for article titles, and it rests on the Five Virtues for titles: Recognizability (when reader first sees it), Naturalness (most natural search term for typical reader), Precision (unambiguously tells what the article is about), Conciseness (shorter is better) and Consistency (with titles of similar articles).

Recognizability, I just don't know. Naturalness, I just don't know. Precision and Conciseness, a wash. That leaves Consistency, and all of the scores of articles in Category:Neighborhoods in Queens, New York are named "[Neighborhood name], Queens". Take a look. There are literally no exceptions, except Long Island City which doesn't go into more detail about where it is (probably should), and The Hole, New York City which is so named because it straddles the Kings/Queens border.

For good or ill the WP:AT people take the Five Virtues pretty seriously, so I think they'd support "Koreatown, Queens" on the basis of four ties and one win (Consistency).

However, if it the case is that Koreatown now straddles Queens and Nassau County (specifically, the very affluent Gold Coast, Long Island part; Nassau County does not appear to be divided into towns as near as I can tell) to any kind of significant degree... then I suppose we'd go to the next higher division, as The Hole, New York City does... administratively (which is how we usually roll), that'd be Koreatown, New York State which is straight out, of course. So then, going geographically, we'd have... Koreatown, Long Island. Huh. But (since we to use administrative subdivisions), you could instead have Koreatown, Queens-Nassau County. (Long Island Koreatown would be good too, but the WP:AT watchers wouldn't like that.) Koreatown, Queens-Gold Coast is maybe more precise.

The WP:AT watchers could decide this, and we could take it over there... but only if the part of Koreatown outside if Queens is at least somewhat significant. If it isn't, they'll say "why are you bothering us when you don't know this important fact"? So... we need to find out. Google maps doesn't seem to help, but maybe if you zoom in enough. Or something else, what? Herostratus (talk) 20:33, 26 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]